Illuminator series woofers have more difficult upper range than Revelators. Motor or cone or both causing that? I would choose Revelators, despite of them being cheaper 
Scan-Speak A/S – Scan-Speak A/S
Discussion here ScanSpeak 6.5" Revelator vs. Illuminator Distortion Revisit
Scan-Speak A/S – Scan-Speak A/S
Discussion here ScanSpeak 6.5" Revelator vs. Illuminator Distortion Revisit
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Thanks wolf-teeth, Dissi, Juhazi, Bill Poster, Henderson, and eriksquires! Great points made and the links. I can't read German well, but I got the impression that Klang and Ton really loves this speaker.
I have the the Illuminator 18WU in a 13" 3-way as a mid with the 66000 tweeter. Stellar sound, transparency, dynamic, 3-D imaging, smooth and coherent. It took 4 tries until the crossover yielded a coherent sound with balanced harmonics. The large mid-cap is 88uF Jantzen Superior Z, and the tweeter is Mundorf Silver Oil + Audyn Reference. (Photos shown).
What the Illuminator 18WU excels in over the Revelator 18W is transparency, low-level detail, dynamics, and compression under high volumes. I use PP caps to tailor the voicing of any speaker. I the sliced-paper seem to benefit from Mundorf Supremes caps.
People are wondering about the 18W/8531G00 and whether it needs an LCR... Baffle geometry is vital and has to be tested as all simulations fail in this regard. Well, the 8-Ohm version is fairly smooth on most baffles 9-11" wide. It's reported to be very easy on crossovers, and the Klang and Ton article even sites this characteristic of this driver, making crossover design very easy. Furthermore, the slice paper cone breaks up any nasties that may result from a single cone geometry.
I have the the Illuminator 18WU in a 13" 3-way as a mid with the 66000 tweeter. Stellar sound, transparency, dynamic, 3-D imaging, smooth and coherent. It took 4 tries until the crossover yielded a coherent sound with balanced harmonics. The large mid-cap is 88uF Jantzen Superior Z, and the tweeter is Mundorf Silver Oil + Audyn Reference. (Photos shown).
What the Illuminator 18WU excels in over the Revelator 18W is transparency, low-level detail, dynamics, and compression under high volumes. I use PP caps to tailor the voicing of any speaker. I the sliced-paper seem to benefit from Mundorf Supremes caps.
People are wondering about the 18W/8531G00 and whether it needs an LCR... Baffle geometry is vital and has to be tested as all simulations fail in this regard. Well, the 8-Ohm version is fairly smooth on most baffles 9-11" wide. It's reported to be very easy on crossovers, and the Klang and Ton article even sites this characteristic of this driver, making crossover design very easy. Furthermore, the slice paper cone breaks up any nasties that may result from a single cone geometry.
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OK, I just re-read my own crossover design using the 18W/4531. I'm sorry I was mistaken. At least in my design, I could have done without either....but!.... I ended up leaving the Zobel and notch filters in due to the incredible phase match with the tweeter.
Sorry to have confused.
I have said before though, that it is an excellent driver, and much much easier to mate with a tweeter than the published FR would leave you to believe.
Again, I think achieving this simple of a design in a 2.5 way is quite a feat though! What limits the driver has with compression compared to the Illuminator are most likely taken care of by the use of 2!
Best,
E
Sorry to have confused.
I have said before though, that it is an excellent driver, and much much easier to mate with a tweeter than the published FR would leave you to believe.
Again, I think achieving this simple of a design in a 2.5 way is quite a feat though!
What limits the driver has with compression compared to the Illuminator are most likely taken care of by the use of 2! Best,
E
I can just not make these things (8531/6600) sound even remotely good playing heavy metal music. While every adjustment I have made has brought minor improvements with most music, heavy metal still sounds horrible.
Just a couple days ago, I was listening to metal on my $10 ear buds and was curious what the same album would sound like on the Scan-speaks and I was greatly disappointed. The ear buds were more pleasant sounding. I don't know what I can do to solve that. Since I am running active, I have a midrange on the way to try it as a 3-way.
Just a couple days ago, I was listening to metal on my $10 ear buds and was curious what the same album would sound like on the Scan-speaks and I was greatly disappointed. The ear buds were more pleasant sounding. I don't know what I can do to solve that. Since I am running active, I have a midrange on the way to try it as a 3-way.
I have to ask- what music group and album? There is badly and well recorded metal just like there is in all of the other genres. Some is good, and some ain't.
Later,
Wolf
Rammstein, lol !
edit : link missing in previous post, sorry : http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/d2608-913000.pdf
maybe too high (roll off) for an Illuminator, and not high end (price) enough for an illuminator... but certainly can help to make a very simple XO (LR2?)...SYSTEM 7 if you read us
edit : link missing in previous post, sorry : http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/d2608-913000.pdf
maybe too high (roll off) for an Illuminator, and not high end (price) enough for an illuminator... but certainly can help to make a very simple XO (LR2?)...SYSTEM 7 if you read us
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The 4531/8531's are warm sounding. You can tune the crossover and cabinet to be more punchy, but you can't make them bite at the midrange. For Metal you want more of the JBL sound.
If that was really my bag, I might go with some pro grade 8"-10" woofers from B&C and a small compression horn.
Best,
E
If that was really my bag, I might go with some pro grade 8"-10" woofers from B&C and a small compression horn.
Best,
E
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I did build the ellam dappo last year, I'm sorry to say but they sound really really terrible.
Hi Shure, I remember your thread. I'm stuck having to build the D'Appo to completion because already I had already cut the front cut, and had all the parts. Troels has "tweaked" the crossover since by reversing the tweeter polarity since. I also have the 98000 tweeter, in case the XT25 tweeter is garbage. I plan on experimenting with several tweeter R values. Let's see what happens... I've finished the crossovers. (Attached photo).
Regarding metal music, or rock, (especially 1980s digital) sound horrible on solid state and high end speakers with high end super caps. The glare is intolerable. So, I listen to 1970-80s music on LP and on tube geat. Much better on the ears.
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Changing tweeter polarity did help a lot.
I tried the 9800, it had the same sound as the XT25 but a little better.
I tried the 70002 I think it was. A step up but still not what I wanted
I tried the 9900, again a step up but not what I wanted. Not even close to the original pandion 30 that I wanted.
But I am getting closer to my goal to clone pandion 30 =) A friend bought them some time ago and im just waiting for him to open them up =)
In the meantime im going to clone the pandion 5, I already have the original crossover and the tweeters, just need to buy the 15W4531G00.
Im hoping they dont sound to different from the 15W/4531G10 that the original use.
nice looking crossover =)
BTW im not cloning the pandion 30 to get better sound than what I have today but it feels like a waste to throw away the boxes I made before, if I finish them I will give them away to my brother or try to sell them.
I tried the 9800, it had the same sound as the XT25 but a little better.
I tried the 70002 I think it was. A step up but still not what I wanted
I tried the 9900, again a step up but not what I wanted. Not even close to the original pandion 30 that I wanted.
But I am getting closer to my goal to clone pandion 30 =) A friend bought them some time ago and im just waiting for him to open them up =)
In the meantime im going to clone the pandion 5, I already have the original crossover and the tweeters, just need to buy the 15W4531G00.
Im hoping they dont sound to different from the 15W/4531G10 that the original use.
nice looking crossover =)
BTW im not cloning the pandion 30 to get better sound than what I have today but it feels like a waste to throw away the boxes I made before, if I finish them I will give them away to my brother or try to sell them.
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Just in case the D'Appos sound like crap, one can reuse parts. It's very disconcerting when a speaker doesn't live up to expectation - time, expense, anticipation, countless hours of break-in, and space. It was Troel's friend's who built the first DAppos, so it's always been a "experimental" speaker.
I also have the SBA Satori MTM on deck with the Be tweeter, and the ATS-4. But, I plan on doing the Ophelias first....
I have that, but have mostly listened to it in the car. I'll spin it at home and tell you what I think in terms of SQ.
What I do think is that 5FDP is rather compressed, and not really all that unique, as well as being fairly well accepted by the mainstream. Most of the better recorded stuff isn't quite as popular.
Later,
Wolf
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