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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Do you measure then listen or listen then measure?
Do you measure then listen or listen then measure?
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Old 5th October 2017, 10:24 PM   #31
richardr is offline richardr  United States
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Measure first. When you get it flat, listen. The problem with using your ears is oftentimes you will get something that appeals in the short term which just drives you away long term. Measurements invariably find the peaks etc. and crap that your ears adjusted to. Adjusting to constantly improve the measurements seems to provide the most long term pleasing speaker for my ears.
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Old 5th October 2017, 10:29 PM   #32
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Do you measure then listen or listen then measure?
Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
As far as the very crude adjustment needed to make an awful school gymnasium with howl back sound tolerable with a 5-band EQ, that is not a meaningful comparison to the level of attention I give to my DSP-EQ system.
LOL. Thanks for the back-pedal, Ben - but I think your gears are stuck. Or maybe you're just stuck in time.

The pro world is far, far from your ideas of 5 band EQ and school gyms. We've used 31 band EQ for decades, and PEQ on the strips. Now that almost all consoles are digital, there is a mighty lot of DSP available right in the mixer. Graphic EQ, parametric EQ, notch filters, shelves, delays, spectrum analyzers, etc. And pro amplifiers have powerful built in DSP to tune the system that you can run from your phone, tablet or laptop, as it's all networked. Measurement is very important, and prediction software is used on all large systems. You might find DANTE interesting, as it has become the de-facto method of audio transport in the pro word.

Measurement and listening skills are used in conjunction with DSP every day in pro audio, in which order they are used isn't really important.
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Old 5th October 2017, 10:33 PM   #33
nigelwright7557 is offline nigelwright7557  United Kingdom
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I am a heretic, I put them in any old box and just listen to them.
Oddly always seems to work out fine.
PCBCAD51 download or CDROM 2019 version out now http://www.murtonpikesystems.co.uk
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Old 5th October 2017, 10:34 PM   #34
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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Do you measure then listen or listen then measure?
Originally Posted by PetruV View Post
I don't have a proper measurement mic
My MacBook mic is very close to my calibrated mic when then mic is in the same location.

Also, the kind of shortcomings the laptop mic has are likely to be unimportant except maybe the lowest freq band shortcomings. If you're getting polarity issues in the crossover region (and that isn't just a question of getting the red wire where it should be), the laptop mic will tell you.*

But if you understand research methods, it doesn't matter. By ear, you've settled on an OK "house curve". So hereafter, you are comparing the measurement of THAT curve, no matter what small error the laptop mic is making, to the original. Begging to differ with the golden-eared posters above, even a modest mic will reveal vastly more about tweeter behaviour in the 7-14 kHz octave than their ears**.

*or not, since phase and polarity in your music room are nothing like the textbook or wannabes-engineer model.
**esp those PA guys who have been listening to hearing-destroying rock concerts much too long
HiFi aspirations since 1957. Currently working on motional feedback again... the final frontier in audio (also, see recent post with data on a 17-foot labyrinth sub)

Last edited by bentoronto; 5th October 2017 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 5th October 2017, 10:45 PM   #35
Nico Ras is offline Nico Ras  South Africa
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I am only starting working with microcap 10 an when simulating you listen, then optimisze, listen, simulate and listen.

The file you listen to is a wave file of any complexity. What I now have available is a tool that can give me harmonic distribution which I can listen too, optimize and re listen and it is different than before.

Once satisfied that both the amplifier characteristics are both objectively as wel as subjectively on target I will commit it to a PCB, then one can measure to see if it corresponds to simulation and listen and compare recordings from bot simulated and actual hardware.

Quite fantastic, but I am still very much learning and it is slowly unfolding. Although you cannot create a high power sound card in your PC, you can creat a device under test that performs as it would in the real world.
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