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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Do you measure then listen or listen then measure?
Do you measure then listen or listen then measure?
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Old 5th October 2017, 03:43 AM   #11
4season is offline 4season  United States
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I measured my newly built speakers right away and discovered that the assembly instructions to wire tweeter out of phase with the woofer were erroneous - big dip in frequency response at 4 kHz when I did that. Reversing tweeter connections fixed that.
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Old 5th October 2017, 03:53 AM   #12
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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It's an iterative process throughout, where I'm constantly listening to it (and measuring it).
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Old 5th October 2017, 03:59 AM   #13
andy2 is offline andy2  United States
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Since the midrange is the most important part, I tend to go for the midrange first. Once I get a good handle on the midrange, I then sample the tweeter and see how it will integrate with the midrange. Once I got the mid and tweeter integrated to my satisfaction, I then measure the bass. Someone mentioned the iterative process which I tend to alternate adjusting between the midrange and tweeter integration. Since the bass frequency is long relatively, so integration is not as difficult and it only has to do with adjusting the bass level to the rest and it only takes one or two time adjusting the bass. The mid and tweeter tend to take the most time.

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Old 5th October 2017, 05:42 AM   #14
manninen is offline manninen  Finland
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First was close range measurements from mid and high (eq), then move mic to the spot, open dual channel fft to get xo points, levels and phase correct.
Then some listening
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Old 5th October 2017, 06:36 AM   #15
Zvu is offline Zvu  Serbia
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I sit down and listen my playlist for testing loudspeakers. It is music i know so well and i listened for so many times that i'm almost sick when i have to do this. Then i write down my conclusions. After that i measure to check if my conclusions matches measurements - they mostly do.

I do make impedance sweep (as DaveR mentioned) just to make sure everything is connected as it should be.
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Old 5th October 2017, 07:34 AM   #16
phase_accurate is offline phase_accurate
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I always listen first - not because of any technical reason but because of impatience and curiosity.

Then there will be measuring - finetuning - listening - finetuneing - measuring - finetuning ...

I would not dare to rely on listening alone. There will always be problems that are not revealed by listening alone.

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Charles
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Old 5th October 2017, 07:39 AM   #17
timpert is offline timpert  Netherlands
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The order of things is not that important to me, because, mostly for me getting things to work the way I want it is an iterative process. If you walk a circle several times, does it matter where you start?

Most of the times I first check the drivers. Do they look OK? Apply some signal to them, do they make a sound? Then, exercise them a little bit with a signal below resonance. Do the cones move without scraping or other funny noises? If these basics check out OK, I break them in a little, and measure T-S parameters. Then the build starts. As soon as I put a driver in its enclosures, I test with sweeps, music and whatnot, just to get an objective and subjective idea on how the system performs as things progress. Sometimes, issues show up worse in plots than in a subjective impression or the other way around, but I have never found that I couldn't correlate things I heard with my measurements.

There are several things that need to be addressed as the build/tuning progresses, and measurements serve to identify these things. But the subjective impression (listening) will guide me to what needs to be addressed first. So the process really becomes something like simulate-tinker-listen-tinker-measure-listen-tinker-measure-whatever in no particular order. Just what happens to be the thing I feel like doing most. But the cornerstone of the process is always: the measurements help me identify the points to be addressed, but the listening (and of course my mood) will tell me what to do next. I keep going until I feel satisfied or until I am fed up with it.

So it is not a linear process like select drivers, measure drivers, design, simulate, build, measure (verify), done, sounds great! I'm not that good.
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Old 5th October 2017, 02:17 PM   #18
1audiohack is offline 1audiohack  United States
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I measure first, and measure again.

How else do you cut the baffle with any accuracy?

100% with Pano. Working with any decent mix or monitor engineer will disprove Benís statement.

I live in the DSP world and I measure first. The end game is good sound and I get there much faster with tools.

Barry.
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Old 5th October 2017, 03:25 PM   #19
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Do you measure then listen or listen then measure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phase_accurate View Post
I always listen first - not because of any technical reason but because of impatience and curiosity.
Yep. Impatience and curiosity sums it up.
Tho if I'm in a series of tweaks I'll just look at what's happening in the measurements until things look good enough to listen.
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Old 5th October 2017, 04:24 PM   #20
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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Do you measure then listen or listen then measure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
I00% with Pano. Working with any decent mix or monitor engineer will disprove Benís statement.

I live in the DSP world and I measure first. The end game is good sound and I get there much faster with tools.
Well, in the end we all agree.

But I am mightily miffed that Pano quoted me out of context. I gave a few examples of how you detect problems by ear and implied you can make yourself happy enough if you have a lot of time and experience. But along with Barry, I don't think you ever have the quality results REW would give in 1/100 of the time.

Once again folks bringing examples from PA practice as "lessons" for quality audio design. Very different worlds.* As far as the very crude adjustment needed to make an awful school gymnasium with howl back sound tolerable with a 5-band EQ, that is not a meaningful comparison to the level of attention I give to my DSP-EQ system.

You'd think the "ear" advocates in this thread had never heard why blind testing is used.

B.
*I'll resist adding comments about tapped "horns" here
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