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Faital Pro 12PR300 or Beyma 12P80ND/V2 at 120 Hz+?
Faital Pro 12PR300 or Beyma 12P80ND/V2 at 120 Hz+?
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Old 11th September 2017, 03:30 AM   #1
Doppler9000 is offline Doppler9000  Canada
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Default Faital Pro 12PR300 or Beyma 12P80ND/V2 at 120 Hz+?

Hello All,
I am ready to order a driver that will run between an AE TD18 and a Beyma TPL-150/H. I have decided that a single 12 (or a 10” if I came across an amazing one that was in the ~100dB sensitivity range that can excel in my design frequency range up to, say, 1,600 – 2,000 Hz meets my goals with the fewest compromises.
I was ready to go with the Beyma 12P80ND/V2, which is well regarded mid-bass/mid driver, however its Qts of 0.15, Fs = 45 Hz, results in an F3 in a sealed box of 212Hz at a Qtc of 0.7. I am concerned that the system may sound better with a crossover frequency well below this.
In a recent thread, LineSource quoted Dr. Geddes:

“The mains should be designed for the best possible direct field with as flat a power response as possible. Equalization of the mains could only make them worse.”

A different alignment could go lower, but I would be concerned about transient response, size and complexity.

So, if I want the option to cross in the 100 – 120Hz range, are my better options more in the realm of the Faital Pro 12PR300? F3 at a Qtc of 0.7 is ~ 100Hz. If so, is the Faital Pro the best (or only) option for this role?

TIA
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Old 11th September 2017, 04:07 AM   #2
Trollet is offline Trollet  Sweden
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Faital Pro 12PR300 or Beyma 12P80ND/V2 at 120 Hz+?
Why not a ported enclosure with Fc at ~100 hz ?
12P80Fe are also a good one, a bit Moore budget friendly.

Figge
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Old 11th September 2017, 04:22 AM   #3
Doppler9000 is offline Doppler9000  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollet View Post
Why not a ported enclosure with Fc at ~100 hz ?
12P80Fe are also a good one, a bit Moore budget friendly.

Figge
I am concerned about the transient response of a ported speaker in this (or any) frequency range. What are the specs of the cabinet and port were you thinking about?
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Old 11th September 2017, 05:46 AM   #4
hollowboy is offline hollowboy  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppler9000 View Post
in the ~100dB sensitivity range
Why does this matter if you are multi amping?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppler9000 View Post
What amp would best complement the driver? It will be mated, with an active xover, to a high efficiency 10"-12" bass/low-mid (TBD)
For what it is worth, this calculator says that the Beyma is more efficient (98.6 vs. 96.1)

If you wanted more sensitivity, you could order the 4ohm version of the FAITAL PRO 12PR300

EDIT - this calculator here

mh-audio.nl - Home
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Last edited by hollowboy; 11th September 2017 at 05:48 AM. Reason: forgot the link
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Old 11th September 2017, 06:19 AM   #5
Doppler9000 is offline Doppler9000  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollowboy View Post
Why does this matter if you are multi amping?
Higher efficiency speakers offer more flexibility with regard to amplifier choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hollowboy View Post
For what it is worth, this calculator says that the Beyma is more efficient (98.6 vs. 96.1)

If you wanted more sensitivity, you could order the 4ohm version of the FAITAL PRO 12PR300

EDIT - this calculator here

mh-audio.nl - Home
The Beyma's outpuin a sealed box,t at 120 Hz, for example, would be well below this sensitivity value.

I am interested in efficiency - I used a sensitivity spec because the efficiency spec is not familiar to most, I would guess.

Last edited by Doppler9000; 11th September 2017 at 06:24 AM.
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Old 11th September 2017, 07:14 AM   #6
hollowboy is offline hollowboy  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppler9000 View Post
Higher efficiency speakers offer more flexibility with regard to amplifier choice.
I see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppler9000 View Post
The Beyma's outpuin a sealed box,t at 120 Hz, for example, would be well below this sensitivity value.
OK, so you're seeking:

- 12"
- flat 120-1600Hz
- moderate Qts for sealed box

...but I think that limits you to an efficiency of about 95dB rather than 100dB.

Maybe this will help?

Resources - Woofer Selection Guide

Grab that list of all their woofers, paste the table into a spreadsheet, then sort the sheet by driver size, efficiency and Qts.

e.g. this one looks like a possibility:

Amazon.com: SELENIUM 12MG1400 Mid Bass Woofer: Car Electronics

...but the efficiency calculates to 'only' 95dB.

The Faital 12PR330 also looks right and has about the same efficiency.
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Old 12th September 2017, 12:33 AM   #7
Jim Griffin is offline Jim Griffin  United States
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I have used the Faital Pro 10PR300 as a mid-range with success in a 3-way open baffle system crossing at 175 Hz.
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Old 13th September 2017, 06:13 AM   #8
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppler9000 View Post
Since I am going all active,..... I plan to triamp..... I am interested in efficiency .
Putting the Beyma 12P80Ndv2 into a medium sealed volume(0.3-0.4cuft) with an active bass transform, like the Linkwitz Transform, would allow you to set the final -F3 down to 100-120Hz if you desire. The 12P80Nd spec's Xmax=7.5mm and AES power = 700 watts, so as long as you stay well above the Fs=45Hz, you should get a smooth boost.

For the "under 200Hz" effects.... you will also need to consider baffle step compensation options plus room placement compensation for in-room vs. against-wall placement. This will demand a more complex crossover. If you desire the highest efficiency midrange, the woofer typically supplies a shaped boost in the 100-200Hz to smooth the baffle step. Otherwise both the mid and tweet need to be attenuated above the cabinet baffle step frequency.

If you want to use a simple crossover DSP shape(LR2/BW3) at 100-120Hz, both the Faital 12PR300(300W) and 12FH520(600W) get good reviews in EconoWaves.
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