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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Visaton tweeters - comparisons?
Visaton tweeters - comparisons?
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Old 6th September 2017, 03:34 PM   #21
Mrcloc is offline Mrcloc  South Africa
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It pains me to say it, but the DT 94 simulates better than anything else. I still won't buy one.
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Old 6th September 2017, 05:04 PM   #22
mondogenerator is offline mondogenerator  England
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I haven't spent alot of time looking at that driver to be fair but it looks good for some applications.

It's difficult but many of Visaton offerings aren't what I would call budget priced. And unfortunately their budget offerings don't really offer much bang for buck especially when overseas delivery is factored in.

When I bought the G20sc I got them for around 30 GBP each which I considered not too cheap to expect good performance but safely out of the trendy but expensive range. I would recommend something like a cone tweeter as it would likely be cheaper but aspects of the sound may suffer, depending on your goals.

I have used the Visaton FRS5X and here it is ~6 GBP, BUT....

It isn't ruler flat frequency response, it has only mediocre to OK THD, takes few watts power only. Lastly when I ordered a batch I had one of the six with a warped frame which is think stamped steel.

Those would cost less in shipping due to weight and can sound rather good, but I hesitate to recommend as they aren't perfect and are built to a cost which is low.

I.e. you could do better, in terms of sound THD etc. But you may like them, as I did.
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Old 6th September 2017, 05:53 PM   #23
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Hi Marc. I see this sound as just what these speakers do! A BBC style, albeit tending to phase-aligned LR2. There's a lot to like there.

Click the image to open in full size.

The Visaton W170S-4 is an easier driver really, which can work off 1mH and 10uF, but do you want low impedance?

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Lead guitar energy is mostly around 2kHz, and these 6" speakers have a dip in power response at that point. Off-axis. I don't think changing tweeters will affect that much. I have some Visaton DT94 mylar tweeters, and they are likeable enough:

Click the image to open in full size.

Maybe you could do a BW3 90 degree phase alignment and a bit of boost to both drivers at crossover. That would fix the power response. I don't know. It's another design!
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Old 6th September 2017, 06:14 PM   #24
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Ah, I've got a BW3 circuit for those drivers. Nearly 90 degree phase.

It's quite simple. Maybe you could fiddle with it more. The idea is it should look OK with either tweeter polarity.
Attached Images
File Type: png BW3 W170S Circuit.PNG (8.2 KB, 37 views)
File Type: png BW3 W170S FR.PNG (25.1 KB, 37 views)
File Type: png BW3 W170S Phase.PNG (28.3 KB, 27 views)
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Old 6th September 2017, 09:01 PM   #25
Mrcloc is offline Mrcloc  South Africa
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Hi Steve, good to hear from you!

See, the thing is that there isn't much of a problem at all. I just find that when the tweeters are tasked with handling the high ringing notes of a slightly overdriven electric guitar (around that 2 kHz mark), they struggle with the other frequencies in the mix. With pure sine waves, they do perfectly. Because of this, I have done a lot of listening to the detail in the high frequencies, and I just feel the SC10Ns aren't quite as good as I can do. So the plan is to keep everything as is and drop in new, better quality tweeters.

I have found that the driver layout is fine when you move to either side of the speaker, but if you stand, the difference in response is noticeable. I believe the classic layout of a 2-way will be a little more flexible.

In other words, I want to change the layout, change the tweeter, and while I'm at it, try a simpler (and easier) crossover like what Lojzek posted. It doesn't hurt to experiment. What I really like is that I can use three component values: a 10uF, a 0.15mH and a 1.5mH. I also want to hear what putting less between the amplifier and drivers will do.

Still, all I'm trying to do is polish the diamond. These speakers are truly amazing. I gave them another in-depth test tonight, and the definition is fantastic, especially the mids and lows. I just feel they'll really pop with a better tweeter.
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Old 6th September 2017, 09:06 PM   #26
Mrcloc is offline Mrcloc  South Africa
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modogenerator, I like the sound of cone tweeters. They're very sweet sounding. The FRX5 is quite expensive for what it is. Unfortunately I can't find them for 6 GBP. But I need a tweeter with better dispersion. I don't sit down to listen to music all the time. I most often put music on while I go about my daily tasks. But I did also consider the B80, but I think those Vifa tweeters will do better, especially to the pocket.
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Old 7th September 2017, 04:17 AM   #27
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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It's a bit of a house-style with Visaton to have the tweeter Fs at about 1.4kHz. I'm not sure it's a bad thing if the resonance is well damped.

I was puzzling over this.

Click the image to open in full size.

We've already mentioned that tweeter coil could be better aligned away from the bass coils. Crosstalk, an' all that.

I'm not overly fond of tank notches. Like the 1uF/6.8R jobbie. Bit of a last resort, IMO. I found that when they break up, they sound very harsh and metallic, and I don't fit them any more.

Lojzek's filter is something I've built myself in the past. I was never very happy with the tonal balance. With or without a 5kHz tank notch on the bass. But who knows?

But losing the notch might help. I also looked at some quick and dirty mods to your current circuit. The 15uF on the tweeter becomes optional. It's near BW3 with it, and near LR2 without. But it deals with cone breakup very well. The dotted line is your current circuit.
Attached Images
File Type: png Lojzek Circuit.PNG (7.3 KB, 31 views)
File Type: png Lojzek FR.PNG (20.4 KB, 29 views)
File Type: png Modified Marc Circuit.PNG (9.7 KB, 34 views)
File Type: png Modified Marc Circuit FR.PNG (18.7 KB, 30 views)
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Old 7th September 2017, 08:02 AM   #28
Mrcloc is offline Mrcloc  South Africa
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Yes, I did mention in a previous post not too long ago that I need to orientate that tweeter inductor differently before anything else.

I'm in two minds about that tank notch, but either way, I'm keeping this crossover as is. There's nothing wrong with it. I suppose I could use higher quality components in the future (now that it's a possibility).

I think I will start a new search today. I'm going to be looking at Scanspeak and Seas tweeters in my search. I anyway have a good use for the SC10N's if they come out.

Removing the 15uF might be something I can consider. Perhaps with a switch. I'll look into that, thanks!
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Old 7th September 2017, 08:29 AM   #29
Mrcloc is offline Mrcloc  South Africa
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So my three choices are (in order of preference):
1. Seas Prestige H1280-06
2. Vifa NE19VTS-04
3. Hi-Vi Q1R

Has anyone tried any of these?
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Old 7th September 2017, 06:31 PM   #30
kimon is offline kimon  Greece
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If dome size isn't restrictive,try to google Monacor DT-300.Same price range,extensively tested and crossovers specially for it by renown designers.
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