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Array for midrange: good idea?
Array for midrange: good idea?
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Old 10th September 2017, 08:04 PM   #21
plasnu is offline plasnu  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
I prefer bulletproof coffee. But how it is related to the discussion?
I was just disagreeing Waysayso saying "Cost may be a very good reason we don't see it more often. "
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Old 10th September 2017, 08:12 PM   #22
Wavebourn is offline Wavebourn  United States
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Array for midrange: good idea?
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasnu View Post
I was just disagreeing Waysayso saying "Cost may be a very good reason we don't see it more often. "
I agree with him here. I personally would love to have a cardioid woofer array from floor to ceiling (or even closed in a wall), but can't afford it. Some people can, few of them...

I already have line arrays in walls. Unfortunately, woofers are 12" drivers in concrete boxes...
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Old 10th September 2017, 08:21 PM   #23
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Cardioid woofer closed in a wall? How is that relevant to the discussion? . Seriously though, how does that work?
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Old 10th September 2017, 08:47 PM   #24
wesayso is online now wesayso  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LewinskiH01 View Post
Keeping center-to center under 1 wavelength at 2kHz, 170mm, I choose 150mm, or 50mm in between drivers. So a 6-driver array would be 85cm tall (h).
Why would you place them this far apart? What are the plans, will you place the tweeter in between them? Or are they (the mid array and tweeter) going to be placed side by side.
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Old 10th September 2017, 08:58 PM   #25
wesayso is online now wesayso  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
Cardioid woofer closed in a wall? How is that relevant to the discussion? . Seriously though, how does that work?
I hope that question was valid or otherwise I'd feel like a fool .

I read his post as: A cardoid floor to ceiling woofer array -or even- a sealed floor to ceiling woofer array in a wall.

A free interpretation of what was typed .
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Old 10th September 2017, 09:00 PM   #26
LewinskiH01 is offline LewinskiH01  Argentina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
Why would you place them this far apart? What are the plans, will you place the tweeter in between them? Or are they (the mid array and tweeter) going to be placed side by side.

I have more questions than answers at this point...haha


Assuming a 6-driver arrange, I imagine it would either go to the side of the tweeter, or MTM with each M representing 3 drivers. But certainly no tweeter in between each midrange driver.


From the Griffin paper, I want to make the array height as large as possible to push the near/far field transition as far as possible, and c-t-c should be kept smaller than one wavelength at the xo point to keep the wavefront even. At 2kHz the wavelength is 170mm, so 150mm c-t-c keeps it under one wavelength and allows spreading out the 6 drivers to extend line length more than if I put them closer together.


Does it make sense, though?
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Old 10th September 2017, 09:01 PM   #27
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Ah, I must have misunderstood, that's probably what he meant, thanks
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Old 10th September 2017, 09:07 PM   #28
wesayso is online now wesayso  Netherlands
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Well I did not assume a tweeter between each pair of mids

An MTM like:

OOO[__]OOO

was what I originally assumed. But it's always better to assume nothing, so I asked.

You could play with the mid spacing to do some of the shading. Patrick once did a thread about that. He spaced the center drivers close together and spacing got wider for the outer (upper and lower) drivers. That would still make it a longer array but shaded due to the spacing.
Sort of like this:

O OO[__]OO O

Or as it would look in a separate mid array:
Code:
O  O OO O  O
Do you get the idea?

Found Patrick's post: An Improved Array
His conclusion was that conventional shading worked better though.
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Old 10th September 2017, 10:31 PM   #29
LewinskiH01 is offline LewinskiH01  Argentina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
Well I did not assume a tweeter between each pair of mids

An MTM like:

OOO[__]OOO

was what I originally assumed. But it's always better to assume nothing, so I asked.

You could play with the mid spacing to do some of the shading. Patrick once did a thread about that. He spaced the center drivers close together and spacing got wider for the outer (upper and lower) drivers. That would still make it a longer array but shaded due to the spacing.
Sort of like this:

O OO[__]OO O

Or as it would look in a separate mid array:
Code:
O  O OO O  O
Do you get the idea?

Found Patrick's post: An Improved Array
His conclusion was that conventional shading worked better though.

Yes, I get the idea. I was avoiding the definition of MTM vs midrange array to the side because the tweeter is a Beyma TPL-150H, so a large one at about 220mm top to bottom of horn, and I know MTM with such large spacing leads to lobing issues. Maybe in MMMTMMM the lobing isn't as bad?


What are your thoughts about the importance to be in the near field of the array? From Griffin's paper I would think it's very important, but from all the pictures you posted, plus Nola and others, I highly doubt those arrays put the listener in the near field.
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Old 11th September 2017, 07:01 AM   #30
Wavebourn is offline Wavebourn  United States
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Array for midrange: good idea?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
Cardioid woofer closed in a wall? How is that relevant to the discussion? . Seriously though, how does that work?
Did not I write that either cardioid, or CLOSED in a wall?

If not in a wall, I would prefer it to be cardioid.
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