Danley demo'd a new invention recently. There's very little info on it, but I thought it would be fun to speculate how it works.
Danley posted this today:
"The cabinet in the movie is a production prototype of a new (ugh I hate to use the phrase) “long Throw” hifi cabinet. It has a 20 by 40 degree pattern and is intended for longer working distances and is more powerful than the J-3 but a little smaller. It has several new acoustic twists in it which I think you would enjoy too….but I can’t talk about here. I can say that if you play pink noise through it, top to bottom, side to side, there is one source. The box sounds unusually clear in person and one of the things Ivan and I are going to do is take some more measurements after a bit more tweaking. I think part of the “clear” sound is here in a harmonic tracking measurement, but I haven’t any conventional speakers to compare to and this isn’t that much better than a J-3. This was gathered last time we were testing it, a nominal 115dB at 15 meters or about 129dB at 1 meter equivalent. I didn’t keep track of which harmonic was which but that’s the 2 through 5 and -10dB =31%, -20dB =10%, -30dB = 3.1%, -40dB = 1% and so on.
Best,
Tom"
Here's a pic of the box, from the aforementioned video. The video sounds very nice but the file is huge, so I don't want to post a link to protect their bandwidth limitations.
Danley posted this today:
"The cabinet in the movie is a production prototype of a new (ugh I hate to use the phrase) “long Throw” hifi cabinet. It has a 20 by 40 degree pattern and is intended for longer working distances and is more powerful than the J-3 but a little smaller. It has several new acoustic twists in it which I think you would enjoy too….but I can’t talk about here. I can say that if you play pink noise through it, top to bottom, side to side, there is one source. The box sounds unusually clear in person and one of the things Ivan and I are going to do is take some more measurements after a bit more tweaking. I think part of the “clear” sound is here in a harmonic tracking measurement, but I haven’t any conventional speakers to compare to and this isn’t that much better than a J-3. This was gathered last time we were testing it, a nominal 115dB at 15 meters or about 129dB at 1 meter equivalent. I didn’t keep track of which harmonic was which but that’s the 2 through 5 and -10dB =31%, -20dB =10%, -30dB = 3.1%, -40dB = 1% and so on.
Best,
Tom"
Here's a pic of the box, from the aforementioned video. The video sounds very nice but the file is huge, so I don't want to post a link to protect their bandwidth limitations.
So there's two mysteries here:
1) How do you get 150dB out of one box? Even the Jericho J3 maxes out at 143dB. Seven dB might not sound like a big difference, but that's more output than you'd get from TWO J3s.
2) How is Danley getting a 40x20 pattern? There must be something going on; you'd need a box that's eight feet deep to do that, if this was a conventional horn.
1) How do you get 150dB out of one box? Even the Jericho J3 maxes out at 143dB. Seven dB might not sound like a big difference, but that's more output than you'd get from TWO J3s.
2) How is Danley getting a 40x20 pattern? There must be something going on; you'd need a box that's eight feet deep to do that, if this was a conventional horn.
..it's a line source design.
The thing is, the physical dimension as freq.s decrease limits that line source behavior over any significant distance - so it usually requires stacked multiples to get the lower freq.s over longer distances. IF you don't do that it will require added input to the lower freq. section to compensate.
Fig. 5 shows these limitations:
http://www.audioroundtable.com/misc/nflawp.pdf
The thing is, the physical dimension as freq.s decrease limits that line source behavior over any significant distance - so it usually requires stacked multiples to get the lower freq.s over longer distances. IF you don't do that it will require added input to the lower freq. section to compensate.
Fig. 5 shows these limitations:
http://www.audioroundtable.com/misc/nflawp.pdf
The 2nd question probably answers the 1st: "compressed" dispersion produces gain for a given input. It probably also has many sources.
I'm not sure what the 40 x 20 pattern is in relation to freq..
Whatever the device is, it has some interesting implications for a hifi horn.
Nobody in their right mind needs a box that can do 150dB at home, but reducing the depth of a Synergy Horn is pretty helpful. In the pic above, you can see a SH-50 I had in my home for a while. The height and width isn't really an issue, but the DEPTH is. Even with a 50 degree pattern, it's quite deep.
I was sort of astounded when I looked at the spec sheet of the J3 and realized how small they are. For some reason I'd assumed they were the size of a refrigerator, but they're actually quite compact.
..I also wonder if there is some rear pressure leakage from the top and bottom of this line source design to keep the verticals "squashed" at lower freq.s..
(..something seems to be "going on" with the top of the cabinet.)
-sort of a high pressure (small enclosure) "leaky" enclosure, not dissimilar to what you'd see for a DIY cardioid design. But that puts a lot of "pressure" on the drivers for gain, even with gain at in-box resonance.
(..something seems to be "going on" with the top of the cabinet.)
-sort of a high pressure (small enclosure) "leaky" enclosure, not dissimilar to what you'd see for a DIY cardioid design. But that puts a lot of "pressure" on the drivers for gain, even with gain at in-box resonance.
X, it is in the Square Pegs thread. I copied the link from there. It did make me LOL..... you gotta stay til the end.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0tjs1mvmy451xcw/20170428113326.mts?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0tjs1mvmy451xcw/20170428113326.mts?dl=0
What do you wager the dimensions of that cabinet are? Guessing by the water bottle in the background it might be about 2x2x4 feet?
I was messing around in Hornresp and if you put two conical horn sections on the end of a tube you can get some pretty narrow wavefronts over a wide frequency range.
I was messing around in Hornresp and if you put two conical horn sections on the end of a tube you can get some pretty narrow wavefronts over a wide frequency range.
There's something new in there, I guarantee it
To get a 20x40 pattern with a conventional horn you'd need something that's about eight feet deep
The 'trick' is to bend the waveform using something like Danley's Paraline, Layered Combiner, or L'Acoustic's VDOSC
You can get the same wavefront using DSP but you're not going to get efficiency in the realm of what Ivan Beaver has mentioned on Facebook
From the looks of it, the box is about the size of a Danley Jericho J-3, or about 4 feet tall!
This is all wild speculation, but my bet is that they "synergy'd" the layered combiner used in the Jericho series. Just like a paraline lens shapes the exit radiation with whatever curvature you like (even converging), if you design a geometry that allows you to control that curvature in two dimensions, you could essentially have any coverage angle you wanted in a shallow package.
Find a way to tap in mids and lows for seamless integration, and that sounds like you're there.
As for the output potential, well who knows. Drivers like the BMS 4592ND basically seem to break the laws of physics, so I wouldn't be surprised if multiple BMS coax CDs are part of the secret sauce. Maybe cram a few 15SW115s in there for some crazy low band output in a compact, lightweight package.
Find a way to tap in mids and lows for seamless integration, and that sounds like you're there.
As for the output potential, well who knows. Drivers like the BMS 4592ND basically seem to break the laws of physics, so I wouldn't be surprised if multiple BMS coax CDs are part of the secret sauce. Maybe cram a few 15SW115s in there for some crazy low band output in a compact, lightweight package.
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Whatever is in there, it's going to look something like the Paraline or VDOSC or Layered Combiner, IMHO.
Here's why:
A single compression driver can deliver about 109dB at 2000Hz.
Two of them can do 112dB.
Four can do 115dB.
etc...
So if you had four compression drivers that were each capable of handling 100 watts, you could squeeze about 141dB out of the array, and that assumes that they're summing perfectly.
That's the key here - the perfect summation. Even the biggest array in the world won't come close to this, because the output of a giant array is limited by the maximum output of a single compression driver. This is because the compression drivers in a line array form a continuous arc; basically each element in the array produces output over a narrow angle. If the maximum output of a single high frequency unit in a JBL line array is 130dB, then that's the maximum output of the ENTIRE array, no matter how many elements you add.
That's the curious thing about the Paralines and Layered Combiners, it offers the interesting possibility of turning multiple compression drivers into one high output unit.
Focused array, "squashed" exit - for the higher freq.s would do it, and you could even do it fairly cheaply.
..Though it's probably not this; I could see 32 2" "fullrange" OEM drivers with 64 ohm VC's parallel-connected to 4 ohm average, horn-loaded, and in an undersized volume cabinet. Maybe even planar drivers..
..Though it's probably not this; I could see 32 2" "fullrange" OEM drivers with 64 ohm VC's parallel-connected to 4 ohm average, horn-loaded, and in an undersized volume cabinet. Maybe even planar drivers..
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