Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

New Danley Invention
New Danley Invention
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th May 2017, 07:39 AM   #21
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
A single compression driver can deliver about 109dB at 2000Hz.
If one could do that on an 80x80 square, would you gain 18dB on 20x40?
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 09:41 AM   #22
Pano is offline Pano  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
Pano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SW Florida
New Danley Invention
Cool video. I wish they had let the music play during the zoom - and shown what the mic setup is.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 11:39 AM   #23
BWRX is offline BWRX  United States
diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
 
BWRX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Quote:
Originally Posted by zettairyouiki View Post
This is all wild speculation, but my bet is that they "synergy'd" the layered combiner used in the Jericho series. Just like a paraline lens shapes the exit radiation with whatever curvature you like (even converging), if you design a geometry that allows you to control that curvature in two dimensions, you could essentially have any coverage angle you wanted in a shallow package.
Can a Paraline lens be configured to cover 20x40?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
That's the curious thing about the Paralines and Layered Combiners, it offers the interesting possibility of turning multiple compression drivers into one high output unit.
I just looked up the layered combiner patent and that's crazy stuff! Pushing the boundaries of acoustics indeed.

How many compression drivers can feed into a single Layered Combiner - 3 or 4? Would it be plausible to have the Layered Combiner coupled to a vertical Paraline in the throat of the horn? That should be able to produce some serious SPLs with the desired directivity, but what about the lower frequencies?
__________________
Brian
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 01:40 PM   #24
zettairyouiki is offline zettairyouiki  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWRX View Post
Can a Paraline lens be configured to cover 20x40?
How many compression drivers can feed into a single Layered Combiner - 3 or 4?
A lot more than that.

Click the image to open in full size.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 01:45 PM   #25
BWRX is offline BWRX  United States
diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
 
BWRX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Holy smokes... But all those drivers aren't going into a single combiner, are they? From the patent it looks like you could have a group of 4 going into a single combiner. Using that logic with that picture, each group of 4 drivers goes into a single combiner whose output goes to a vertical paraline, and 8 of those paralines are stacked on each side of the cabinet!
__________________
Brian
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 03:38 PM   #26
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Patrick Bateman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
Focused array, "squashed" exit - for the higher freq.s would do it, and you could even do it fairly cheaply.

..Though it's probably not this; I could see 32 2" "fullrange" OEM drivers with 64 ohm VC's parallel-connected to 4 ohm average, horn-loaded, and in an undersized volume cabinet. Maybe even planar drivers..
My knowledge of line arrays is nowhere near guys like speakerdave.
But if I understand the technology correctly, the maximum output at 20khz is going to be the maximum output of a single driver.

IE, you could have a line array of ten thousand 3" drivers, the maximum output at 20khz is going to be about 95-105dB.

This is because two sources will act like one if they're withing approximately 1/3rd to 1/4 of a wavelength. At 10khz, that necessitates a distance of less than 1.13cm. That gives you two options:

1) A low efficiency line source like the Keele CBT. Although the efficiency of a single unit is just 75dB, there's ninety six of them. That raises the power handling significantly, though the high frequencies will always be limited by the low efficiency of the high frequency units. (This also illustrates that the CBT 96 could really use a little bit of horn loading for the highs, maybe a very shallow waveguide that restricts the beamwidth of the top two octaves. It wouldn't have to be big, a fraction of a centimeter would do it.)

2) For high output applications, you want something that can combined two diaphragms into one exit. That's what BMS does with their coaxial midranges, it's what JBL does with their D2430K, it's what Danley does with the layered combiner.

The Paraline has always been interesting to me. Though it doesn't combine outputs, it narrows the beam so much, it allows you to use multiple compression drivers as if they were one larger unit. Note that the maximum output of a Paraline at 20khz will still be the same as a single unit. (If I understand things correctly.)

Click the image to open in full size.
That's why JBL combines the output of two diaphragms like this. And uses quite a hefty voice coil. That gets your maximum output at 20khz up to around 130dB or so.

It just occurred to me that a lot of this comes full circle. Back in the day, Danley was doing acoustic levitation. To do that, you need to generate maximum output at a single point in space. The Jericho horns kinda follow the same ideal. But now that 'point in space' is an arena that's a hundred feet away from the loudspeaker. IE, they're still trying to generate as much output as possible over a point, that point has just become larger than this:
Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 19th May 2017 at 03:43 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 04:10 PM   #27
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Patrick Bateman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Cool video. I wish they had let the music play during the zoom - and shown what the mic setup is.
In the Facebook comments, I believe Ivan commented that they're using the microphone on the camera.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 10:46 PM   #28
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: US
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
My knowledge of line arrays is nowhere near guys like speakerdave.
But if I understand the technology correctly, the maximum output at 20khz is going to be the maximum output of a single driver.

IE, you could have a line array of ten thousand 3" drivers, the maximum output at 20khz is going to be about 95-105dB.

This is because two sources will act like one if they're withing approximately 1/3rd to 1/4 of a wavelength. At 10khz, that necessitates a distance of less than 1.13cm. That gives you two options:


2) For high output applications, you want something that can combined two diaphragms into one exit. That's what BMS does with their coaxial midranges, it's what JBL does with their D2430K, it's what Danley does with the layered combiner.

With a focused array you can cross to a point forward of the diaphragm where the acoustic centers match almost perfectly with a theoretical +3db for each doubling of sources (and +3db for halving of impedance depending on amplifier). Of course before and beyond this point you will incur combing (assuming the offset is vertical in nature, so will the combing be), with a sufficient waveguide though it's moot. (..as opposed to a relativly "free-field" condition as seen below.)

As for waveguides, remember that as you "squash" the directivity pattern from the driver's output at any given freq. - that you obtain gain. In particular you can squash the horizontal to achieve vertically improved dispersion at the exit (to a point) - so what was once perhaps a 3/4 of an inch vertically around 18 kHz, could be 1/4" horizontally (squeezed) with the vertical expanding to MORE than 3/4 of an inch vertically at that freq.. Of course most waveguides that are designed to turn point-source compression drivers into line sources are "focused" more on a vertical that has little pressure BEYOND it's vertical exit - so that in combination with the same drivers: there is little combing interference when properly combined in a large vertical array.



This picture shows a speaker where the fullrange drivers are focused in order to achieve treble gain comparable to the gain of the drivers at lower freq.s without significant combing at a certain distance and over a much more narrow vertical window than the midrange.
__________________
perspective is everything
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 11:20 PM   #29
Pano is offline Pano  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
Pano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SW Florida
New Danley Invention
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
In the Facebook comments, I believe Ivan commented that they're using the microphone on the camera.
Yes, they usually do. I did look at the Facebook page, but never found the post.

BTW, I have heard that giant HF thing with all the compression drivers. It is amazing, like an audio flashlight. Very narrow beam.
__________________
Take the Speaker Voltage Test!
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2017, 11:26 PM   #30
Pilover2000 is offline Pilover2000  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Mississippi Mills, Ontario, Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by zettairyouiki View Post
A lot more than that.

Click the image to open in full size.
Am I crazy wondering about compression with this set up?

Grant.
__________________
2-channel sound reproduction is like Alice in Wonderland - Linkwitz
  Reply With Quote

Reply


New Danley InventionHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
invention SERGIODS Everything Else 0 31st January 2013 08:36 PM
My invention ? Did I invent this amp ? larryB Solid State 38 26th November 2011 04:37 PM
Invention of the Photoresistor and phototransistor gain wire Parts 9 21st January 2010 01:26 AM
My glorious new invention tresch Full Range 13 22nd October 2009 12:22 AM
Snubberized, not my invention peranders The Lounge 11 18th January 2005 04:12 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:59 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki