Hi All,
I would like some thoughts on upgrading my Special 25 crossover with improved caps & resistors, I been able to open up the back and look at the crossover to see the values of the caps but the resistors are underneath the PCB board which Im haven't done yet.
The S25,s are driven by the Accuphase A65 Class A amp & C3800 pre amp and at times I hear a bit of nasal congestion. Dynaudio uses Solen caps and I wanted to replace the tweeter 1uf cap with a Vcap silver OIP, the mids with the Solen Silver AG caps cause space is limited and thats all I think that will fit. The woofer has a 10uf & 25uf, was thinking of just replacing the 10uf with the Vcap silver OIP since that size would fit nicely.
The resistors I hope to replace with the Mills or Path resistors.
Advice and suggestions appreciated.
I would like some thoughts on upgrading my Special 25 crossover with improved caps & resistors, I been able to open up the back and look at the crossover to see the values of the caps but the resistors are underneath the PCB board which Im haven't done yet.
The S25,s are driven by the Accuphase A65 Class A amp & C3800 pre amp and at times I hear a bit of nasal congestion. Dynaudio uses Solen caps and I wanted to replace the tweeter 1uf cap with a Vcap silver OIP, the mids with the Solen Silver AG caps cause space is limited and thats all I think that will fit. The woofer has a 10uf & 25uf, was thinking of just replacing the 10uf with the Vcap silver OIP since that size would fit nicely.
The resistors I hope to replace with the Mills or Path resistors.
Advice and suggestions appreciated.
I hate Solen caps so much... I won't try their silver or anything else.
Here's my suggestion: Replace everything with Mundorf MKP's first, and see if you like it as is.
The key cap is going to be in series with the tweeter, I doubt it is 1uF. No reason to get fancy with a shunt cap like you suggest. You are looking for a cap in series with the tweeter (maybe 2 of them!) usually around 3.3uF to 12uF in size.
+1 for Mills resistors. You may want to try mounting them to the top side though, as they'll need air cooling.
Here's my suggestion: Replace everything with Mundorf MKP's first, and see if you like it as is.
The key cap is going to be in series with the tweeter, I doubt it is 1uF. No reason to get fancy with a shunt cap like you suggest. You are looking for a cap in series with the tweeter (maybe 2 of them!) usually around 3.3uF to 12uF in size.
+1 for Mills resistors. You may want to try mounting them to the top side though, as they'll need air cooling.
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Your right Eric I just removed the crossover from the board and the cap to tweeter is a 1.5 uf. The tweeter caps I can go up to 1 in D. x 2 in L. The 6.8 caps for the mid Im limited to 1.5 d x 1 3/4L due to the space restriction is why I also looking at the Vcap Silver I don't believe there Murdoffs and Im not sure the Murdoff MKP will fit.
Thanks
Thanks
Hello, I'll give you the best advice you will get anywhere without having to pay one cent for it!
You seem to be suffering from the same illness every audiophile
gets infected with at least once in a lifetime, getting bored.
Leave the speaker as it is for there is nothing wrong with the parts quality and sell it or even better put it aside and get your self a DIY speaker kit where you can knock yourself out with all the work needed to finish one. There is plenty of cheap and expensive ones on the market.
I have modified a few commercial products and these mods were actually completely new designs, not some meaningless exchange one brand of caps for another.
Once arrived an old Wharfedale loudspeaker, an 8" woofer and a 1" tweeter and there was absolutely nothing I could do about to improve its sound, so I declined to do anything about it and returned it to the owner.
Dynaudio S25 appears to fall in the same category.
I hear what your saying Lojzek , leave it alone yet I noticed the guy upgrading his Focal crossover you didn't tell him to leave it alone. Is there a difference between upgrading a Focal over a Dynaudio?
I have modified a few speaker and tube amps with better caps & resistors in my time and never where they meaningless upgrades but I appreciate your advice .
I promised my wife I wouldn't buy any new boxes and modifying falls into a different category
I have modified a few speaker and tube amps with better caps & resistors in my time and never where they meaningless upgrades but I appreciate your advice .
I promised my wife I wouldn't buy any new boxes and modifying falls into a different category
I have suggested that guy that there was room to modify lower Focal ranges of speakers (was it Electra?) with different XO values, not parts make and model, to meet the Utopia kind of sound quality for the drive units were already good quality with the potential, and I don't think this is the case with Dynaudio.
Anyway silver is cheap at about 0.6 US$/1g. How much of it can it be in Solen Silver caps to justifiy the price?
Anyway silver is cheap at about 0.6 US$/1g. How much of it can it be in Solen Silver caps to justifiy the price?
I have suggested that guy that there was room to modify lower Focal ranges of speakers (was it Electra?) with different XO values, not parts make and model, to meet the Utopia kind of sound quality for the drive units were already good quality with the potential, and I don't think this is the case with Dynaudio.
Anyway silver is cheap at about 0.6 US$/1g. How much of it can it be in Solen Silver caps to justify the price?
It's unlikely the cost is strictly related to the materials cost alone. There would be one of supply ... tin foil might be easier to source versus silver foil. Tin may not work harden to the same degree as silver foil, requiring an additional annealing step. It may wear differently in production, causing tooling to have a different replacement / remachineing step. Cleanliness issues may differ. Changes in manufacturing to produce the differing units may add a time loss component. And then there is the standard issue with any mass-produced item in any category ... the Return On Investment (ROI) based on costs to develop x expected sales numbers.
I am not suggesting every and all of those issues are relevant to the two types of capacitor, but am suggesting there are other issues besides the raw cost of metal that factor into the factory gate prices.
Prices (for anything) are what they are. Either pay them or choose to use lower cost alternatives, or abandon the purchase entirely and save for later purchase or do without. Some people, maybe you, maybe just people you know, buy brewed coffees at massive multiples of the cost of the cup and the beans, and think nothing of it, but rail at the cost of an electronic part. Makes no sense to me.
This is everyday economics that everyone deals with from the supermarket to buying laundry machines to hobbies. I see no value in complaining about prices regardless of the object in question save for the essentials to living wherever you happen to reside (and capacitors generally don't qualify unless maybe they run your stove's electronics), or whether the average person can even afford non-essentials. I prefer more choice to less.
Someone buys everything for sale, or the makers fail, and I'm fine with either result.
I beg your apology for the rant, and apologies for the off-topic post. It's not directed at you personally, it's just one of those things that come up repeatedly and quite frankly, baffles me. I do understand the motivation to complain, but it's a exercise in futility and best suppressed. Long ago I learned not to sweat things I have no control over. The prices of whatever qualify, my choice to buy or ignore them is under my control, and that's good enough.
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Dynaudio mods
I had a pair of these speakers and was less than happy with their sound at least in my room.I tried several brands of caps and found the Mundorf silver/gold in oil to be the best making me think about replacing my beloved Quads briefly.I moved the crossover to the outside of the box enclosed in a cheap plastic box and they were very much improved.They are your speakers so do with them as you want and pay no attention to those that tell you what you should do.
I had a pair of these speakers and was less than happy with their sound at least in my room.I tried several brands of caps and found the Mundorf silver/gold in oil to be the best making me think about replacing my beloved Quads briefly.I moved the crossover to the outside of the box enclosed in a cheap plastic box and they were very much improved.They are your speakers so do with them as you want and pay no attention to those that tell you what you should do.
An UpDate,
Ended up replacing the 6.8uf & 10uf with Murdof MPK per Eric,s suggestion and replaced the tweeter with the VCap CUTF 0.01uf bypassed with the VCap TFTF 1.5 uf, yes slightly different bypassed configuration but I wanted more of the sonic benefits of the CUTF 0.05uf then the TFTF 1.5uf and replaced all the sand resistors with Mills and I now have 250 hours on the Xover its sounding wonderful with all of the nasal , compressed sound gone not that their was much but enough that I wanted to change it into more refined coherent speaker which it certainly is and is getting better daily.
Thanks for the positive words and advice.
The
Ended up replacing the 6.8uf & 10uf with Murdof MPK per Eric,s suggestion and replaced the tweeter with the VCap CUTF 0.01uf bypassed with the VCap TFTF 1.5 uf, yes slightly different bypassed configuration but I wanted more of the sonic benefits of the CUTF 0.05uf then the TFTF 1.5uf and replaced all the sand resistors with Mills and I now have 250 hours on the Xover its sounding wonderful with all of the nasal , compressed sound gone not that their was much but enough that I wanted to change it into more refined coherent speaker which it certainly is and is getting better daily.
Thanks for the positive words and advice.
The
Since this posting I have made the following improvements and changes,
Replaced the V Cap CUTF 0.01 bypass with the Duelund Silver Foil Bypass cap. HumbleAudio cap review describes the effect of the Duelund Silver Foil cap perfectly.
Changed the internal wiring to Duekund Silver foil 2.0 on the tweeter and 3.0 to the mid/woofer.
Changed the Solen 25uf shunt cap to Obligatory Gold , would like to add a Duelund Silver foil bypass cap to that one day also.
These changes have really made the S25 truly Special.
Good Luck.
Replaced the V Cap CUTF 0.01 bypass with the Duelund Silver Foil Bypass cap. HumbleAudio cap review describes the effect of the Duelund Silver Foil cap perfectly.
Changed the internal wiring to Duekund Silver foil 2.0 on the tweeter and 3.0 to the mid/woofer.
Changed the Solen 25uf shunt cap to Obligatory Gold , would like to add a Duelund Silver foil bypass cap to that one day also.
These changes have really made the S25 truly Special.
Good Luck.
Took a measurement with REW of the Special 25. Mic placed at listening position.
Used calibrated USB Umic-1. The listening room is quite small from front to back wall, but wide. Ca 3,5 meter from the front (knee-wall) to back wall. Room is ca 6,5 meters wide. There is some space behind the speakers, ca 70 cm further from knee-wall.
Listening position is 3 meters from the speaker. The subwoofer in the pic is turned off when measured.
Also measured them with two layers of paper taped on the inside of the speaker-cover, covering the area of the tweeter. Shown in the graph as purple plotting. Blue is without speaker cover.
This is far field measurements, so of course room depentent. But there are some
rises in the response that is corresponding to the "harshness" when listening.
The wide rise from 330-550 Hz, and the peaks at 1 KHz and 3,3-3,5 KHz.
The waterfall plot is without speaker grill cover.
Used calibrated USB Umic-1. The listening room is quite small from front to back wall, but wide. Ca 3,5 meter from the front (knee-wall) to back wall. Room is ca 6,5 meters wide. There is some space behind the speakers, ca 70 cm further from knee-wall.
Listening position is 3 meters from the speaker. The subwoofer in the pic is turned off when measured.
Also measured them with two layers of paper taped on the inside of the speaker-cover, covering the area of the tweeter. Shown in the graph as purple plotting. Blue is without speaker cover.
This is far field measurements, so of course room depentent. But there are some
rises in the response that is corresponding to the "harshness" when listening.
The wide rise from 330-550 Hz, and the peaks at 1 KHz and 3,3-3,5 KHz.
The waterfall plot is without speaker grill cover.
Attachments
It is important to know if they really have those "peaks" or whether the lower ones are just the normal response inbeween dips caused by room placement. And the dip between 1 and 3 kHz could probably be caused by false tweeter polarity. I would play around with that before changing part values.
Regards
Charles
Regards
Charles
yes, from the upper midrange and upwards. I haven't found the schematics for the xo. All i know its a 1. order. and what's described by Tecknik1 in this thread.
From 6moons.com review: "The filter’s slope is 1st-order, i.e. a very shallow 6d/octave rolloff set at a very typical 2.400Hz for a 2-way." 6moons audio reviews: Dynaudio Special Twenty--Five
The room placement is far from perfect, but it what is possible. Cant put them too far from front wall, then they will be too close to listening position, and tweeter level even higher... I tried them in my other setup that is in a much bigger room. Had the same impression of the sound signature there too.
What do mean by false tweeter polarity?
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