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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

For 0, can anything beat Pyle PH612 + JBL 2408H-1?
For 0, can anything beat Pyle PH612 + JBL 2408H-1?
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Old 12th April 2017, 06:47 PM   #1
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Default For $200, can anything beat Pyle PH612 + JBL 2408H-1?

A few years back I bought a single JBL 2408H-1. To my eyes, it's basically a BMS 4540ND with a different phase plug.

I put it back on the shelf and forgot about it.

This week I've been doing some measurements of various waveguides and compression drivers, and noticing that the 2408H-1 plus the Pyle PH612 just keeps winning. In the words of The Iron Sheik, the JBL takes one look at my compression drivers and tells that "I will humble you."

And then it does.

I'm too lazy to upload all the measurements I made, but here's what I've noticed:

1) The 2408H-1 is insanely efficient. At the low end of the spectrum, it's limited by the diaphragm size, but above 2000Hz? YOWZA. This thing will rip your ears off.

Click the image to open in full size.
Here's a comparison of the JBL versus the Tymphany. Admittedly, a different waveguide. But the extra SPL above 2000Hz is noticeable. In particular, note that it's TWELVE dB more efficient at 20Khz. I think this is due to the new phase plug in there, basically same phase plug that's on the D2430K that costs five times as much. I really do think you're getting 80% of the D2430K performance for 20% of the price.

Click the image to open in full size.
Here's some unequalized polars on the Pyle PH612. Purty!

Some caveats :

1) it's a screw on compression driver, so good luck finding waveguides that will fit. The Pyle PH612 and it's Dayton clone will work.
2) It won't go as low as the Tymphany or the B&Cs. You lose surface area when you go from a dome to a ring.
3) The PH612 has a nasty gap in the throat, you have to fill it in with Mortite to get curves like I've posted


Long story short: Let's give the 2408H-1 some love! It's a really nice compression driver that nobody is using.
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Old 12th April 2017, 07:27 PM   #2
Andrew Eckhardt is offline Andrew Eckhardt  United States
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Is the PH612 still generally available? I notice Parts Express no longer sells it. Have you tried their equivalent? I put an Eminence APT-50 on the latter and it made horrible noises, even with modeling clay in the throat. didn't bother measuring..
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Old 12th April 2017, 07:45 PM   #3
ICG is offline ICG  Germany
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PH612 isn't in production anymore. Some dealers still have a few but that's not what I call 'available', you really have to search for it.

The Dayton H6512 got the same WG function, IMO even identical there. However, it doesn't have the metal insert thread, only a thread in the plastic. If a driver rattles in it, you have to put a very thin teflon tape (or something similar) into the thread and that stops it immediately from rattling.

Besides that, the APT50 isn't a good choice for that WG, you'd want something with a bigger VC and ability to cross over a lot lower.
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Old 12th April 2017, 07:58 PM   #4
Andrew Eckhardt is offline Andrew Eckhardt  United States
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Now that you mention it, it was a D220-Ti, not the Eminence. It sounded hopeless so I haven't really worked on it. I think the horn had a zinc insert. No rattling.

Maybe the JBL is a much better driver?
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Old 12th April 2017, 08:20 PM   #5
multitask is offline multitask  Denmark
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I have a par of econowaves in the shed with d220 and dayton, no horrible noise there. But the dayton is not exactly a clone, its larger vertically
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Old 12th April 2017, 08:43 PM   #6
ICG is offline ICG  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multitask View Post
I have a par of econowaves in the shed with d220 and dayton, no horrible noise there.
Well, it's the unprecise thread and badly cleaned casting edges/burrs. Some are better, some are worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by multitask View Post
But the dayton is not exactly a clone, its larger vertically
Dayton H6512: 12x6.5"

Pyle PH612: 11.9x6.4"

The difference in size is minimal and only in the mounting plate.
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Old 12th April 2017, 09:02 PM   #7
ICG is offline ICG  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Eckhardt View Post
Now that you mention it, it was a D220-Ti, not the Eminence. It sounded hopeless so I haven't really worked on it. I think the horn had a zinc insert. No rattling.
That's strange since the D220-Ti and the Dayton are an approved combination. The tolerances of the casting can be corrected though.

Anyway, if you don't want the Dayton, you culd still buy the JBL 338800-001 - which would be the 'original'.
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Old 12th April 2017, 10:25 PM   #8
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Eckhardt View Post
Now that you mention it, it was a D220-Ti, not the Eminence. It sounded hopeless so I haven't really worked on it. I think the horn had a zinc insert. No rattling.

Maybe the JBL is a much better driver?
The JBL really seems to be special.

I wish someone at JBL would get the memo that neodymium prices have dropped.

I paid $60 for my 2408h-1; it's now $145.
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Old 12th April 2017, 10:49 PM   #9
multitask is offline multitask  Denmark
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How low can it go? Since this is a 12inch waveguide, would most benefit from a 12 woofer, which wants an xo below 1.5k offaxis
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Old 12th April 2017, 11:19 PM   #10
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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It's perfectly fine to use a waveguide that's larger than the midbass below it.

For instance, a waveguide that's 12" wide with a woofer that's 8" wide below it.

That would dictate a crossover point of around 1500Hz, which is perfectly do-able.

Where you get in trouble is if the waveguide is too SMALL not too BIG.
For instance, if you use a 6" waveguide with a 10" woofer, the waveguide loses pattern control at 2250hz while the woofer starts to beam at 1,350Hz. That means you have to 'push' the woofer to 2250hz to maintain pattern control. (which is tough for a ten.)

I think Geddes is using big waveguides with smaller woofers these days. It also improves the polar response of the compression driver below the xover point.

Long story short:
Better to have a wave guide that's too big than too small.
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