Go Back   Home > Forums > >

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Help needed - understanding crossovers
Help needed - understanding crossovers
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 24th March 2017, 12:20 PM   #1
dreamerm6 is offline dreamerm6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Default Help needed - understanding crossovers

Okay so here is what I want to accomplish:
3 way - 4 driver all 8ohm (2 x woofer, 1 mid, 1 tweeter)

So with this calculator I have the values for a normal 2nd order butterwoth design.
Help needed - understanding crossovers-xo1-jpg

But now when I add a 2nd woofer in parallel obviously the ohms would become less, Rtotal = R1ŚR2/(R1+R2) = 4ohm

So by using this online calculator, i change tha value of woofers to 4ohm.
Help needed - understanding crossovers-xo2-jpg

The inductor and capacitor values did change at the woofer level, but what about the rest of the circuit? Will the rest of the circuit still run at the desired 800/4500hz ?

Thank you.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg xo1.JPG (66.4 KB, 184 views)
File Type: jpg xo2.JPG (64.7 KB, 321 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2017, 12:54 PM   #2
giralfino is offline giralfino  Italy
diyAudio Member
 
giralfino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Forget about online calculators. They work on the assumptions of constant impedance, flat frequency response and infinite baffle, and all those assumptions are wrong. If it were so easy to build a crossover we would have only speakers with perfect performance. The truth is that the crossover is the core component of a speaker, and must be designed to suit the drivers chosen, and also the box shape and driver placement.
The best option for starting in this hobby is to build a proven design, but if you want to start designing a speaker read at least the sticky post in this forum about designing a crossover without measurement. Keep in mind that for a complete novice designing from scratch a 2 way is difficult, but a 3 way is probably impossible.

Ralf

The answer of you question is that on a parallel crossover what you do on the woofer part doesn't modify the behavior of the other parts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2017, 01:39 PM   #3
dreamerm6 is offline dreamerm6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Thanks for the reply!
I want to figure out how driver placement, cabinet design etc influences the XO design.
There is no fun or learning in a DIY speaker since everything is pre calculated and designed. I want to broaden my knowledge of speakers and crossovers and how it works together.
Obviously I will chop and change values on the XO depending on the sound I get once everything is assembled, but was unsure of the effect the 2 x woofers in parallel will have on the rest of the XO.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2017, 01:56 PM   #4
ewollowe is offline ewollowe  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Perth, Western Australia
You need to do lots of research.

Specific questions may get answered here but huge broad sweeping requests tend to get avoided.

This is an awesome hobby but it's also suprisingly deep.
__________________
Irishman downunder
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2017, 02:04 PM   #5
mikejennens is offline mikejennens  United States
diyAudio Member
 
mikejennens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bismarck, ND
Have you thought about finding a speaker that fits what you want, but that's already been designed?
The Parts Express Tech Talk forum is all about DIY'ing speakers. You might find some specific help over there.
I had one that fit that configuration that used 2 Dayton Dayton DC-160's, a Tang Band W4-1337, and a Vifa tweeter. If you'd like, I can try to find the crossover and build specifics.

Forums - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum

Mike
__________________
HiFiMeDIY T3 amp, Squeezebox Touch, HP Laptop source & FiiO DAC, Paul Carmody's Sunflowers, Jeff Bagby's (RIP) Continuums... and a set of 62-year-old worn out ears from 1959
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2017, 02:20 PM   #6
dreamerm6 is offline dreamerm6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Yes, I have these drivers with me:

HIVI M8N x 4
HIVI M6N x 4
HIVI M5N x 2
HIVI M4N x 2
Dayton Audio DC28F-8 1-1/8" Silk Dome Tweeter x 2
Peerless D27TG-35-06 1" Silk Dome Tweeter x 2
Visaton DT94-4 0.8" Polycarbonate Tweeter 4 Ohm x 2

So with a combination of these I want to build a decent speaker.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2017, 02:42 PM   #7
dreamerm6 is offline dreamerm6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by ewollowe View Post
You need to do lots of research.

Specific questions may get answered here but huge broad sweeping requests tend to get avoided.

This is an awesome hobby but it's also suprisingly deep.
You are absolutely correct.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2017, 03:21 PM   #8
giralfino is offline giralfino  Italy
diyAudio Member
 
giralfino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
For a speaker DIYer there are 2 different skill sets. One is designing and the other is building, and the latter is fairly easy to understand. If you are building a proven design, you still have a lot of things to do correctly and to learn. OTOH what is under the design skill can be a little obscure for a novice. If you want to undergo this route I suggest you to buy two books: Loudspeaker Design Cookbook by V. Dickason and Testing Loudspeakers by J. D'Appolito. And then also buy some measurement equipment, at least a calibrated mic is needed, if you have a windows computer with excel then the sw is free. And don't forget to buy lots of crossover components for testing purposes.
As a first design, try a 2 way, the M5N coupled to either the Vifa or the Dayton crossed at around 2.5KHz should work.

Quote:
Obviously I will chop and change values on the XO depending on the sound I get once everything is assembled, but was unsure of the effect the 2 x woofers in parallel will have on the rest of the XO.
If you build a crossover based on an online calculator you could be so far off that you can't remedy. And is surprisingly difficult for an untrained ear to understand what is wrong without a measurement.

Ralf
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2017, 03:57 PM   #9
bullittstang is offline bullittstang  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Detroit, MI
Help needed - understanding crossovers
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamerm6 View Post
Yes, I have these drivers with me:

HIVI M8N x 4
HIVI M6N x 4
HIVI M5N x 2
HIVI M4N x 2
Dayton Audio DC28F-8 1-1/8" Silk Dome Tweeter x 2
Peerless D27TG-35-06 1" Silk Dome Tweeter x 2
Visaton DT94-4 0.8" Polycarbonate Tweeter 4 Ohm x 2

So with a combination of these I want to build a decent speaker.
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...(TMWW-or-WTMW)

Go here and READ all of it..."Swope Tower" is a fantastic speaker and you are only missing the tweeters (which aren't expensive). Easy box to build, or spice it up to your taste (keeping internal volumes the same) and the speaker spacing the same distance from the top/sides and each other. You will have an extremely nice speaker that will play very loud and have bass with authority.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2017, 04:10 PM   #10
dreamerm6 is offline dreamerm6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Thank you guys for your help. Can I use my yamaha rxa3060 mic? Then I'll download the software and test the driver response once inside the cabinet and then use the response measurement to better design the XO. What is this sound easy v21 software like?
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Help needed - understanding crossoversHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
filters/crossovers a little understanding needed charlie2 Multi-Way 3 19th February 2015 01:33 PM
Need some help understanding Vrystaat Power Supplies 4 4th July 2013 03:30 PM
Need some help understanding high & low pass filters & crossovers Haz Multi-Way 13 12th May 2012 02:03 AM
Help needed understanding component values. cbj591 Tubes / Valves 15 5th August 2010 09:23 PM
Amp understanding / help bear-hifi Solid State 2 7th February 2006 03:26 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:24 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2021 diyAudio
Wiki