I don't know if they are "better" but the 825/828 cabinet is so big, forgiving and tunable, why not?
FWIW, years ago we used to run an 828 cabinet with a woofer made from a Westrex frame and an EV cone. That's real mix and match.
I think these JBL 2226 15" woofers will work fine cone is light and stiff and T/S specs seems right at a proper bass/midbass application.
JBL 2226H is a pro woofer and is still a success product from JBL from all other top pro audio products.
If these are better than 416's I can put these in the A7 825 cab?
'Better' depends on the 'ear of the beholder' as they have different sonic 'signatures', but specs-wise I kind of view it as a 'best of both' between the 416-8C, 515-8G as it has a blend of each's specs, frequency responses plus higher power handling, so an excellent choice for high power apps and so-so for HIFI/HT apps due to its much higher Fs Vs the 416 and lowest Vas of the three, ideally requiring some form of EQ to raise the 2226's Qts to offset the lack of high power heat rise or reducing the cab's net Vb to suit the intended app, with some folks otherwise just using a very lossy [~aperiodic] vent or completely sealing them up.
In short, I'm very Altec centric for HIFI/HT apps, but have periodically recommended the 2226H for A5, A7 replacements long before I knew TD had and other JBL models dating back to the late '70s when it became obvious that Altec couldn't keep up with the rapiding changing market WRT to long term durability, increased power handling in prosound apps.
I haven't done any serious research WRT other brands, but been really impressed with some similar Beyma, B&C, Faital, mid-bass horn drivers, so apparently lots of options for high power apps nowadays.
GM
Just spoke with Bill at Great Plains Audio and got some pricing on the 515 and 416 new, they're pricey alright. I will try the TD route and see for myself I can always remove them and replace with original 416 woofer and 902 1" drivers. He also told me they are not for home stereo or listening more for pro with higher power input and tweaking in the bass area which almost all theaters that had the original VOTT setup had subs under the A7's anyway so I will try the 2226H route and BMS 4550 on an Autotech Bi-Radial 1" horn. But will buy also the 511B horn just in case. Thanks GM
You're welcome!
Subs didn't come along until the early '80s, even Altec's original THX submission system didn't have a sub, but huge IB cabs with either two or four 515Bs: A9 A10
It alleged had superior speech intelligibility, overall more 'musical' to the others, but failed, so were forced to 'follow the crowd' with multiple much higher power drivers in relatively small vented cabs with huge Mantaray horns + as many high power 15"-18" subs as required, which while loud, didn't sound any better than Just Big and Loud, etc., with the klipsch best overall to my ears.
Unless you just want the vintage 'look'/sonic signature of the 511, strongly recommend using a Mantaray MR994 if sticking with Altec.
GM
Subs didn't come along until the early '80s, even Altec's original THX submission system didn't have a sub, but huge IB cabs with either two or four 515Bs: A9 A10
It alleged had superior speech intelligibility, overall more 'musical' to the others, but failed, so were forced to 'follow the crowd' with multiple much higher power drivers in relatively small vented cabs with huge Mantaray horns + as many high power 15"-18" subs as required, which while loud, didn't sound any better than Just Big and Loud, etc., with the klipsch best overall to my ears.
Unless you just want the vintage 'look'/sonic signature of the 511, strongly recommend using a Mantaray MR994 if sticking with Altec.
GM
Greets!
They switched to Tractrix flares for the mids, HF horns, which greatly reduces reflections back to the throat, though one can accomplish it by adding a foam or similar mouth damping like Altec did on some speakers. Best performing though are large conical waveguides [WG], which sound more like large panels than horns, i.e. no obvious sonic signature.
A good compromise is the Le Cleac'h: Azurahorn -Le Cleac'h Acoustic Horn Loudspeakers
JMLC hORNS – GPoint Audio
Right, DJK modified the 'little' La Scala for more bottom end: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/91448-la-scala-bass-mod-again/
GM
They switched to Tractrix flares for the mids, HF horns, which greatly reduces reflections back to the throat, though one can accomplish it by adding a foam or similar mouth damping like Altec did on some speakers. Best performing though are large conical waveguides [WG], which sound more like large panels than horns, i.e. no obvious sonic signature.
A good compromise is the Le Cleac'h: Azurahorn -Le Cleac'h Acoustic Horn Loudspeakers
JMLC hORNS – GPoint Audio
Right, DJK modified the 'little' La Scala for more bottom end: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/91448-la-scala-bass-mod-again/
GM
I bought a pair of A7X in 1977 right out of college. They were advertised as disco speakers!
Good parts in them.
416-8B woofers. 802-8G hf drivers.
N1201-8A (same as M19) crossovers.
511 horns (mounted inside the box)
Had them for years. Have had a few pairs since but now have M19's.
Enjoy!
Ron
Good parts in them.
416-8B woofers. 802-8G hf drivers.
N1201-8A (same as M19) crossovers.
511 horns (mounted inside the box)
Had them for years. Have had a few pairs since but now have M19's.
Enjoy!
Ron
Do you mean that the approx 4300 cubic inches (approx 2.5 cubic feet) between the woofer and the back should be reduced? Should the horn volume also change? Any other hints please. This is my next project…thank youIf you want the A7 and can get a good deal on a pair of cabinets, go for it.
You will need to do some modifications to the cabinets and the crossover to get the best sound out of them.
The A7/500 I bought a few years back sounded pretty horrible for home hi-fi. First thing I did was build a better crossover for the 500Hz horn. Then closed up the ports of the of the bass box to less than half the original area. That help extend the bass almost an octave. Plenty of other things to do, too.
No, not the area behind the bass horn. The port area below the woofer is too large in the stock version. I reduced it to about 2.5" tall, but that depends on the room and the woofer. Bracing is also important. I added panels to the inside of the box to double the thickness and also braced front to back and side to side. The box panels are big and will sing. Making them stiffer and quiet goes a long way to eliminate box sound.
An understatement! The ideal amount of added stiffness is staggering for both the cab and even a small metal horn! The mass loaded version for reference:
A7 mass loading
A7 mass loading update
A7 mass loading
A7 mass loading update
Discussion of VOT in home needs a link to this article:
https://www.resistormag.com/features/archetype-altec-voice-of-the-theatre/
![Altec-Archetype-2000px-7[1].jpg](https://www.diyaudio.com/community/attachments/altec-archetype-2000px-7-1-jpg.1050497/ "Altec-Archetype-2000px-7[1].jpg")
https://www.resistormag.com/features/archetype-altec-voice-of-the-theatre/
Here is the VOTT system that I built with Mr. Hiraga back in the '80s. I wanted a "Hi-Fi" PA system for some small touring and Jean Hiraga lent me this system, if I would do the upgrade labor. The results where phenomenal. I've heard systems that squeezed more detail out of a recording, or had a more giant sound - but never another set of speakers that sounded as much like real musicians playing real instruments in a real space. These just nailed it. They could even bring to life funky old mono blues recordings or make studio trickery fun.
https://www.melaudia.net/ecouteRDS0506.php
https://www.melaudia.net/ecouteRDS0506.php
I don't know about you, but I certainly don't need all that power and stuff to impress anyone, including guests.
In fact, I don't have the desire to impress anyone.
However, when I do have guests over, they're impressed anyway with my modest (and sensible) equipment.
thank you.
If the cabinet width is 30, are those wings 12 inches or 15. Are the fixed? Or do they fold and lock into place?
Good question, I don't remember the width of the wings. They were standard Altec size IIRC, so maybe I can find documentation. GM likely remembers.
They were rigidly fixed in this case.
In the back of the woofer horn I used a nice think layer of Blackston (sp?) tar, which doesn't harden. It adds significant damping to the horn flares. On the back of flares of the box I owned, I added a plywood brace, then damped with bituminous paint loaded with sand. That killed the rather bad buzzes and rattles of the horn flares.
On the inside of the main part of the box, the lower part, Mr. Hiraga had me double the walls with Nantex plywood, IIRC 19mm. Nantex marine plywood is no longer made but it was the hardest, densest, heavist plywood I've ever worked with. So hard to cut and drill that it felt like cast iron. On my own boxes, I used 19mm plywood, OSB and bracing. Doing that reduced box talk to very low levels. It also made the boxes very heavy and hard to move.
I never used side wings on mine, had planned to, but never did.
They were rigidly fixed in this case.
In the back of the woofer horn I used a nice think layer of Blackston (sp?) tar, which doesn't harden. It adds significant damping to the horn flares. On the back of flares of the box I owned, I added a plywood brace, then damped with bituminous paint loaded with sand. That killed the rather bad buzzes and rattles of the horn flares.
On the inside of the main part of the box, the lower part, Mr. Hiraga had me double the walls with Nantex plywood, IIRC 19mm. Nantex marine plywood is no longer made but it was the hardest, densest, heavist plywood I've ever worked with. So hard to cut and drill that it felt like cast iron. On my own boxes, I used 19mm plywood, OSB and bracing. Doing that reduced box talk to very low levels. It also made the boxes very heavy and hard to move.
I never used side wings on mine, had planned to, but never did.
thank you for the information. 🙏🙏🙏
I was gravitating to using Jabroc - same as tank wood - as i have access to the appropriate tools).
https://permalideho.co.uk/products/
I was gravitating to using Jabroc - same as tank wood - as i have access to the appropriate tools).
https://permalideho.co.uk/products/
I've not seen Jabroc before. Maybe it's similar to some of the flooring in shipping containers, which has always intrigued me. Stiff sides are good, you just want to be sure it doesn't ring. The closest ply I've found to the famous Nantex is bamboo plywood. Very dense, very stiff - makes good speaker boxes.
Maybe you've found a good engineered wood for speaker building!
Maybe you've found a good engineered wood for speaker building!