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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

An Improved Array
An Improved Array
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Old 23rd February 2017, 05:48 AM   #121
Rick Craig is offline Rick Craig  United States
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Originally Posted by bbutterfield View Post
This brings up an interesting point about how to deal with directivity that changes with frequency. Both CD horns and CBTs have low frequency limits below which they become more and more omnidirectional. This makes for an uneven power response, which could color the sound as we perceive it.

I wonder if the problem largely goes away if we maintain directivity down to about 280 hz or so. At that frequency, the floor bounce will typically be less than 1/2 wavelength behind the direct sound, so it starts to correlate with the direct sound. At that point, the floor bounce is acting like reinforcement, and we can EQ the frequency response to be flat at the listening position, and the result might sound uncolored.

How do others suggest handling the loss of directivity at low frequencies?
Having designed and listened to many arrays and point source speakers in different rooms the arrays always tend to have better bass. I've found that control down to 200-250hz works really well.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 01:43 PM   #122
Rick Craig is offline Rick Craig  United States
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On the issue of studio recordings versus live recordings in a concert hall I disagree with Earl that a 2-way with a waveguide tweeter will translate better since the majority of recordings are done in a studio. Engineers can add effects and in some places they have access to fairly large rooms that can add ambiance for side wall reflections. For me the ideal speaker has good localization, soundstage width, and envelopment (the latter being most difficult for 2-channel).
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Old 23rd February 2017, 04:05 PM   #123
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by Rick Craig View Post
I disagree with Earl that a 2-way with a waveguide tweeter will translate better since the majority of recordings are done in a studio.
When did I say that? If you think that I did then you must have misunderstood.

What I have said is that there is a tradeoff between spaciousness and imaging, do you disagree with that? And that a high DI point source will tradeoff more towards the imaging aspects, which are critical to studio work. It is the DI that's matters, not how it is obtained.

Imaging in an auditorium is never very good even live, so reproduction of such imaging is not a primary consideration. Hence, there is going to be a difference between how a given set of speakers translate between "live" venues and studio work (low DI versus high DI, for example). How can this not be true? The differences can be related to the speakers DI and its interface to the room. The fact that producers can simulate a large venue (if they are actually in a large venue then it is not "studio work") doesn't really impact what I am saying.
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Old 25th February 2017, 11:12 AM   #124
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by Rick Craig View Post
No problem - important thing is that what you have works for you and allows you to enjoy the hobby. When I talk to Don next I'll ask him to consider adding a floor-to-ceiling comparison to the CBT. I think the CBT offers wider appeal for DIY since many (myself included) don't have the option for a floor to ceiling array. Even if I did, I think the spatial presentation of a CBT is more realistic.
Why would that be? Any pointers? So far I'm liking my own results, as measured at the listening position, compared to the real world stuff I've seen on the CBT. No reason for me to assume I'm missing out on something yet.

I'd love to see the data of the CBT though. Including early waterfall plots etc. As said, I don't think it's a bad concept. I couldn't make it work in my room.
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Last edited by wesayso; 25th February 2017 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 26th February 2017, 11:39 PM   #125
Rick Craig is offline Rick Craig  United States
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Localization with a CBT seems to be better but this is subjective and I don't have a metric to give you. Just what I've notices based on hearing a floor to ceiling with 4" full-range drivers and a 2-way with longer planars / ribbons for the tweeters.
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Old 8th March 2017, 08:08 PM   #126
dziemian is offline dziemian  Poland
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Both cbt24 kit and finished set are already available on parts express website.

EPIQUE CBT24 by Dayton Audio

I wonder whats the real diffrence between cbt36 and cbt24. Hopefuly we'll see some measurements soon.
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Old 8th March 2017, 08:16 PM   #127
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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The difference between the CBT36 and the CBT24 is the difference between a full-range speaker and a two-way. The treble on the two way is better, but at the expense of horizontal polar response. In a conventional two-way speaker the issues with the polar response are in the vertical axis, in the CBT36 the issues are in the horizontal axis. (Because it's a horizontal not vertical array.)

Due to this, IMHO there's a lot of good reasons to flip the CBT36 on it's side.

Note that the JBL CBTs don't have this issue; the midrange and tweeter are basically coaxial.
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Old 8th March 2017, 09:15 PM   #128
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
Due to this, IMHO there's a lot of good reasons to flip the CBT36 on it's side.
I told Don that is what I would do with them if I had a pair and I think that he was insulted.
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Old 8th March 2017, 09:22 PM   #129
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
I told Don that is what I would do with them if I had a pair and I think that he was insulted.
Click the image to open in full size.

And with 65" TVs becoming the norm, there's lots of room for an array underneath there.

A 75" TV is about six feet wide...
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Old 9th March 2017, 01:57 AM   #130
454Casull is offline 454Casull  Canada
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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
Click the image to open in full size.

And with 65" TVs becoming the norm, there's lots of room for an array underneath there.

A 75" TV is about six feet wide...
Well...

CBT array center speaker data - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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