Thanks! My plan is to flush mount the speakers in an infinite baffle type configuration which should control diffraction.
It will be a very large home theater, just in the initial planning phases. Listening distance will probably be about 18-20' though which is why I'm leaning towards horns.
Hard to beat the JBL ScreenArray stuff for that application. Waveguides are available online for decent prices.
Buy or copy the 5732 for LCR stacks.
5732 | JBL Professional Loudspeakers
Quite a few cheaper options for drivers if you go the diy route. Feel free to ask. I looked almost everywhere already.
Buy or copy the 5732 for LCR stacks.
5732 | JBL Professional Loudspeakers
Quite a few cheaper options for drivers if you go the diy route. Feel free to ask. I looked almost everywhere already.
Last edited:
So you can buy the waveguides without drivers? Can you point me in this direction because so far I'm just finding the complete speaker sets.
I lean towards DIY for the fun and being able to choose drivers and doing custom crossovers.
Find the spec sheet of the system:
JBL 5732 Spec Sheet
Find the subassembly containing the part you are interested in - it's the JBL 5732-M/HF
Now find the technical manual of the subassembly JBL 5732-M/HF:
JBL 5732 MHF
Find the JBL part number of the part you are interested in:
It's the Waveguide 364897-001
Now Google for that part number:
Product Details
JBL 364897-001 Dual WaveGuide Cinema 3732 | Full Compass Systems
That waveguide is also used on the 3732
The documents used to be available on jblproservice.com, but the server is currently down.
What's the difference between NSD1480N
Eighteen Sound - Professional loudspeakers
and ND3ST?
Eighteen Sound - Professional loudspeakers
The NSD1480N has a nitride coated titanium diaphragm instead of the ND3ST regular titanium. Also the NSD1480N seems to have a more straight fr. response.
I remember seeing good measurements from the ND3ST in the past and it has a copper sleeve. So which one has the lower distortion?
Eighteen Sound - Professional loudspeakers
and ND3ST?
Eighteen Sound - Professional loudspeakers
The NSD1480N has a nitride coated titanium diaphragm instead of the ND3ST regular titanium. Also the NSD1480N seems to have a more straight fr. response.
I remember seeing good measurements from the ND3ST in the past and it has a copper sleeve. So which one has the lower distortion?
ND3ST has four a 4 slot phase plug vs. 3 slot on the NSD1480.
The recommended minimum crossover frequency is lower for the NSD1480.
I doubt I could hear a difference between them when using the same material.
From measurements I've done and others I've seen, they're both second to none in their categories.
The recommended minimum crossover frequency is lower for the NSD1480.
I doubt I could hear a difference between them when using the same material.
From measurements I've done and others I've seen, they're both second to none in their categories.
ErnieM,
Just came across your results for testing the 18 Sound ND3SN and Radian 745NEO on SEOS-8 horns. When listening to music you said the 745NEO had more “hash,” and I’m not sure what that means.
Have you had a chance to mount the 745NEO to the Ciare PR614? What is your assessment of how it sounds playing music compared to the ND3SN?
I currently have the 745NEOs with aluminum diaphragms mounted to 18 Sound XT1464 horns sitting on top of the woofer cabinet similar to your picture. An Altec 416 is in the 7 cu ft cabinet with Zilch’s Z-19 crossover, so I imagine the HF would behave pretty similar to your set-up.
Any chance you’ve run a 745NEO through the XT1464 yourself? This combo for me beat out old and modern 1” driver/horn combos and a Faital 1.4” driver, but I’m new to 18 Sound drivers and the Ciare line.
BTW, like the Ciare, the XT1464 has a rounded flange and while I have damping on top of the cabinet, I’ll get some acoustic material and put it a couple of inches beyond the flange like you did - so thanks for that idea.
Just came across your results for testing the 18 Sound ND3SN and Radian 745NEO on SEOS-8 horns. When listening to music you said the 745NEO had more “hash,” and I’m not sure what that means.
Have you had a chance to mount the 745NEO to the Ciare PR614? What is your assessment of how it sounds playing music compared to the ND3SN?
I currently have the 745NEOs with aluminum diaphragms mounted to 18 Sound XT1464 horns sitting on top of the woofer cabinet similar to your picture. An Altec 416 is in the 7 cu ft cabinet with Zilch’s Z-19 crossover, so I imagine the HF would behave pretty similar to your set-up.
Any chance you’ve run a 745NEO through the XT1464 yourself? This combo for me beat out old and modern 1” driver/horn combos and a Faital 1.4” driver, but I’m new to 18 Sound drivers and the Ciare line.
BTW, like the Ciare, the XT1464 has a rounded flange and while I have damping on top of the cabinet, I’ll get some acoustic material and put it a couple of inches beyond the flange like you did - so thanks for that idea.
Let me try it again this weekend and get back to you. I did mount it on the PR614 but didn't do a back to back comparison. It sounded pretty good though.
These test are always sighted...as unbiased as I believe I am... I'm sure dropping nearly a grand on compression drivers has an effect.
The tests didn't really show any major differences. Both are high quality devices.
These test are always sighted...as unbiased as I believe I am... I'm sure dropping nearly a grand on compression drivers has an effect.
The tests didn't really show any major differences. Both are high quality devices.
No rush, but your observations would definitely be appreciated.
I've used several Radian drivers as they remind me of the Altec's from the 1970s when I was forming my sound preferences. Since Radian doesn't make horns, the XT1464 was recommended and the clarity, separation and sweet spot was impressive enough that I though I should consider one of their drivers. I would stay with aluminum diaphragms to keep the "familiar" sound.
The Ciare PR614 came up for the first time as a good match to the exit angle of the 745NEO, though I can't find specs to verify that. Hence the reason for considering the 18 Sound driver and/or PR614 for at home listening at moderate levels.
Of interest is a full and rich midrange and smooth highs, (at least by horn standards), with a musical vs. analytical sound, if that helps.
Thanks again for your time and help.
I've used several Radian drivers as they remind me of the Altec's from the 1970s when I was forming my sound preferences. Since Radian doesn't make horns, the XT1464 was recommended and the clarity, separation and sweet spot was impressive enough that I though I should consider one of their drivers. I would stay with aluminum diaphragms to keep the "familiar" sound.
The Ciare PR614 came up for the first time as a good match to the exit angle of the 745NEO, though I can't find specs to verify that. Hence the reason for considering the 18 Sound driver and/or PR614 for at home listening at moderate levels.
Of interest is a full and rich midrange and smooth highs, (at least by horn standards), with a musical vs. analytical sound, if that helps.
Thanks again for your time and help.
I tried both today in the setup pictured below. Both eq'd nearly flat to 20khz.
The 18 Sound does edge the Radian in the high treble despite the measurements looking nearly identical. More detail and separation in cymbals, acoustic guitar, etc. You can hear cleaner reverb tails.
Not a massive difference but appreciable if you still have some hearing left above 10khz
Otherwise they're pretty much interchangeable.
I wouldn't be too motivated to change horns since you already have the XT1464. I've never tried one but the design is similar overall.
I prefer the Radian over the Faital 146R for the same reason I prefer the 18 Sound over the Radian. More high treble clarity.
Listening to treble only content on any device is not advisable for extended periods of time. Almost sounds like something is broken. The same phasey distortion sound was present with no horns, a dome tweeter, and a full-range.
The 18 Sound does edge the Radian in the high treble despite the measurements looking nearly identical. More detail and separation in cymbals, acoustic guitar, etc. You can hear cleaner reverb tails.
Not a massive difference but appreciable if you still have some hearing left above 10khz
Otherwise they're pretty much interchangeable.
I wouldn't be too motivated to change horns since you already have the XT1464. I've never tried one but the design is similar overall.
I prefer the Radian over the Faital 146R for the same reason I prefer the 18 Sound over the Radian. More high treble clarity.
Listening to treble only content on any device is not advisable for extended periods of time. Almost sounds like something is broken. The same phasey distortion sound was present with no horns, a dome tweeter, and a full-range.
Attachments
Last edited:
The only difference I can see is that the R version has an extra 0.75mm winding length.
I thought I read it was for extra durability at high levels. I suspect the standard 146 probably sounds a little better on top with its lighter mass.
The ND3 easily handles an 800hz crossover at high levels on the Ciare PR614. The distortion numbers are well behaved down to the crossover at broadband 120db 1m.
The XT1464 is a little bigger so maybe you can get away with 650-700hz.
I thought I read it was for extra durability at high levels. I suspect the standard 146 probably sounds a little better on top with its lighter mass.
The ND3 easily handles an 800hz crossover at high levels on the Ciare PR614. The distortion numbers are well behaved down to the crossover at broadband 120db 1m.
The XT1464 is a little bigger so maybe you can get away with 650-700hz.
ErnieM,
Thanks for taking the time to compare the 745NEO and ND3ST - that's quite an impressive "test chair" you use! (I don't imagine you're using the extra large pipe wrench in the picture to attach the drivers to the horn.)
Last week I also emailed 18 Sound to ask a very subjective question regarding the difference between their aluminum and tungsten diaphragms for at-home listening. The reply was the tungsten is a little richer and warmer. Along with the clarity you mentioned, I'd think that could help add to details in the cymbals, higher guitar notes and reverb tails you heard.
Since I can still hear up to around 13K Hz - your 10K Hz reference was a very helpful comment - the ND3ST will get added to the to-do list. Thanks again.
phase_accurate,
Not sure what your particular application will be for the Faital 146, but my research on forums said that Faital's "R" version was better for near field listening. (My listening position is about 9' from the speaker and listening levels typically don't get above moderately loud these days.)
An email reply from Jason Longobardo at Faital said "your research is correct, the R version would be better in the near field monitor instance." No technical explanations, but it seems to be what most people were hearing.
Thanks for taking the time to compare the 745NEO and ND3ST - that's quite an impressive "test chair" you use! (I don't imagine you're using the extra large pipe wrench in the picture to attach the drivers to the horn.)
Last week I also emailed 18 Sound to ask a very subjective question regarding the difference between their aluminum and tungsten diaphragms for at-home listening. The reply was the tungsten is a little richer and warmer. Along with the clarity you mentioned, I'd think that could help add to details in the cymbals, higher guitar notes and reverb tails you heard.
Since I can still hear up to around 13K Hz - your 10K Hz reference was a very helpful comment - the ND3ST will get added to the to-do list. Thanks again.
phase_accurate,
Not sure what your particular application will be for the Faital 146, but my research on forums said that Faital's "R" version was better for near field listening. (My listening position is about 9' from the speaker and listening levels typically don't get above moderately loud these days.)
An email reply from Jason Longobardo at Faital said "your research is correct, the R version would be better in the near field monitor instance." No technical explanations, but it seems to be what most people were hearing.
I am curtrently using the 146 without R in a large MTM. Although not originally intended for this kind of usage I am currently using them at a distance of about 1.5m as background speakers in home-office. It would probably be cool to try the R version also. Will check if this can be acomplished by changing the dias.
Regareds
Charles
Regareds
Charles
A little more comparisons.
ND3SN has treble clarity in the upper octave like a good 1.75" diaphragm driver, but with the output and dynamics that only large format drivers can provide. Much stronger in the lower treble/upper midrange.
I compared it back to back with a Peerless DFM2544.
The Radian 745Neo can't match the clarity of the other two. The difference is very obvious when used in my bass rig. The clean snap with slap/pop playing is missing in comparison.
If the beryllium diaphragms ever get cheaper I'll be sure to try them out.
ND3SN has treble clarity in the upper octave like a good 1.75" diaphragm driver, but with the output and dynamics that only large format drivers can provide. Much stronger in the lower treble/upper midrange.
I compared it back to back with a Peerless DFM2544.
The Radian 745Neo can't match the clarity of the other two. The difference is very obvious when used in my bass rig. The clean snap with slap/pop playing is missing in comparison.
If the beryllium diaphragms ever get cheaper I'll be sure to try them out.
Last edited: