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Pure Audio Project Open Baffle kits?
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Old 14th December 2016, 04:33 PM   #1
oltos is offline oltos  United States
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Default Pure Audio Project Open Baffle kits?

Has anyone heard any of the Pure Audio Project open baffle systems? I know that these aren't DIY designs, but in terms of actual performance would they approach the SOTA?


They typically use pairs of upgraded Eminence Alpha 15 woofers per side and either Tang Band, Beyma or Heil AMT HF/MF drivers. They are ~95db and the rep told me that they give bass down to 30Hz at only 20" from the rear wall.

He uses his 2.5 watt 2A3 amp to drive his pair. He also claims that they chose the modded Alpha 15 woofers (over the otherwise excellent Acoustic Elegance woofers) y because they cross high with the driver above, and because you get full range response at low listening levels.

My other choice is very different: A pair of restored Quad 57s, raised 15" with a pair of rythmik 12" sealed servo subs.

Last edited by oltos; 14th December 2016 at 04:37 PM. Reason: adding text
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Old 14th December 2016, 06:46 PM   #2
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oltos View Post
Has anyone heard any of the Pure Audio Project open baffle systems? I know that these aren't DIY designs, but in terms of actual performance would they approach the SOTA?

They typically use pairs of upgraded Eminence Alpha 15 woofers per side and either Tang Band, Beyma or Heil AMT HF/MF drivers. They are ~95db and the rep told me that they give bass down to 30Hz at only 20" from the rear wall.

He uses his 2.5 watt 2A3 amp to drive his pair. He also claims that they chose the modded Alpha 15 woofers (over the otherwise excellent Acoustic Elegance woofers) y because they cross high with the driver above, and because you get full range response at low listening levels.

My other choice is very different: A pair of restored Quad 57s, raised 15" with a pair of rythmik 12" sealed servo subs.
I am pretty sure Heil has been out of business for a while. :-) Last I saw they were using Mundorf AMT's thanks to a little partnership they have going on. The PSP choice in music and electronics is absolute crap, but Mundorf AMT's are state of the art. Eminence also has a very good reputation.

Best,

Erik
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Old 14th December 2016, 06:53 PM   #3
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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So to answer your question.... I heard their open baffle systems as well as the Mundorf MA30 at a show. The rep was playing sounds that could barely be called music through equipment that was operating painfully beyond it's operating threshold, so I can't give you a specific answer as to the sound of the open baffle speakers, but I see no reason why that combination of drivers would not sound very good if well driven and playing actual music.

I do think the systems seem a big pricey if you have any sort of woodworking skills yourself and know how to measure and adjust a miniDSP unit.

Best,


Erik
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Old 15th December 2016, 11:34 AM   #4
djn is offline djn  United States
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I like what I see but I do prefer horn loaded bass.
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Old 15th December 2016, 06:36 PM   #5
PDRCanada is offline PDRCanada  Canada
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Theres been a few people that have cloned the PAP. myself included.
I've had a few DIY OB systems from GR Research....V1 and SuperV....but the
PAP is a different animal and I wanted to give them a try.

Easy to build, but I havnt had time to play with the mini DSP, so it wouldnt be fair to compare them to my GR gear right now.
I was lucky enough to get a schematic for the Trio using the Tang Bang 1808-8,
so in a few days I'll have them up and running the way they would of come
from PAP.

Here is a link to the build of the Trio and my other OBs.....post #2148

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...llery-215.html
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Old 15th December 2016, 11:08 PM   #6
Scott L is offline Scott L  United States
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Pure Audio Project Open Baffle kits?
Default dsp ?

Does the mini-dsp unit serve double duty to equalize the front-to-back wrap around bass loss ?
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Old 16th December 2016, 08:42 PM   #7
Carl_Huff is offline Carl_Huff  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriksquires View Post
I am pretty sure Heil has been out of business for a while. :-) ...

Best,

Erik
Actually they are back in business! ESS Labs., LLC – Sound As Clear As Light?
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Old 17th December 2016, 12:07 AM   #8
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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Actually they are back in business! ESS Labs., LLC – Sound As Clear As Light?
Fabulous!
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Old 17th December 2016, 10:57 AM   #9
oltos is offline oltos  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eriksquires View Post
So to answer your question.... I heard their open baffle systems as well as the Mundorf MA30 at a show. The rep was playing sounds that could barely be called music through equipment that was operating painfully beyond it's operating threshold, so I can't give you a specific answer as to the sound of the open baffle speakers, but I see no reason why that combination of drivers would not sound very good if well driven and playing actual music. Erik
Thanks Eric for sharing your experience. It seems rather careless of PAP demoing their products using such apparently odd or unflattering music. Most likely they had their reasons. Might that have been Ze'ev who ran the demos? He was the one from PAP who first replied to my emails about their speakers. When I asked what amps sound best with their modded dual Eminence Alpha 15 woofers + Heil or Tang Band or Voxativ widebanders, he said his 2.5 wpc Bottlehead 2A3 tube amp sounds best to his ears. Not surprisingly, he did add that it doesn't sound very dynamic (?!), but claimed that the quality of the highs and mids well made up for it. Otherwise, the ~94db Trio 15 is supposed to go down to 32Hz. Trio15TB, Open Baffle Speakers - PureAudioProject Or 36Hz Trio15TB, Open Baffle Speakers - PureAudioProject But then if that 2A3 amp was driving those at the show maybe he deliberately avoided recordings with any respectably low end. Note in the specs however that impedance does drop to less than 4 ohms, though if this happens much above the midrange it shouldn't load down the amp very much, yes? For me perhaps the hardest thing would be deciding between the Heil AMT, Tang Band and Voxativ drivers. Ze'ev did try to distinguish their sonic signatures but it still won't be easy without actually hearing them.
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Old 17th December 2016, 11:21 AM   #10
oltos is offline oltos  United States
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Originally Posted by PDRCanada View Post
There's been a few people that have cloned the PAP. myself included. I've had a few DIY OB systems from GR Research....V1 and SuperV....but the PAP is a different animal and I wanted to give them a try. Easy to build, but I havnt had time to play with the mini DSP, so it wouldnt be fair to compare them to my GR gear right now. I was lucky enough to get a schematic for the Trio using the Tang Bang 1808-8, so in a few days I'll have them up and running the way they would of com from PAP. Here is a link to the build of the Trio and my other OBs.....post #2148.
Your diy works are really stunning. Coincidentally, as you had used AE Dipole 12, in your OBs, I had asked Ze'ev about why they stopped using the Dipole 15s. He said they offer very clean bass because they needed to be pushed harder and essentially required active crossovers. Otherwise, they couldn't be crossed high enough to blend with their widebanders. Indeed, I was thinking of having John Janowitz build my OBs, but had doubts about the Dipole 6 midrange. And thanks for taking on the PAP + Tang Band project. Have you ever heard the Heil AMT used in any kind of project? Ze'v said that it has a truly 3D presentation but what else might it do for female vocals and instruments? Funny you should mention DSP. For all of its obvious benefits, it's still a tool that I'd rather avoid using, if only because I'd spending a lot on a main system DAC with very clean and sweet sounding output stage. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plana...ml#post4881006 Last, but not least-since I can only afford one or the other speaker: Has anyone here actually heard a pair of expertly restored Quad 57 ESLs, and perhaps with fast, good quality sealed subs?

Last edited by jazbo8; 20th December 2016 at 06:49 AM. Reason: quote
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