Has anyone heard any of the Pure Audio Project open baffle systems? I know that these aren't DIY designs, but in terms of actual performance would they approach the SOTA?
They typically use pairs of upgraded Eminence Alpha 15 woofers per side and either Tang Band, Beyma or Heil AMT HF/MF drivers. They are ~95db and the rep told me that they give bass down to 30Hz at only 20" from the rear wall.
He uses his 2.5 watt 2A3 amp to drive his pair. He also claims that they chose the modded Alpha 15 woofers (over the otherwise excellent Acoustic Elegance woofers) y because they cross high with the driver above, and because you get full range response at low listening levels.
My other choice is very different: A pair of restored Quad 57s, raised 15" with a pair of rythmik 12" sealed servo subs.
They typically use pairs of upgraded Eminence Alpha 15 woofers per side and either Tang Band, Beyma or Heil AMT HF/MF drivers. They are ~95db and the rep told me that they give bass down to 30Hz at only 20" from the rear wall.
He uses his 2.5 watt 2A3 amp to drive his pair. He also claims that they chose the modded Alpha 15 woofers (over the otherwise excellent Acoustic Elegance woofers) y because they cross high with the driver above, and because you get full range response at low listening levels.
My other choice is very different: A pair of restored Quad 57s, raised 15" with a pair of rythmik 12" sealed servo subs.
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I am pretty sure Heil has been out of business for a while.
Last I saw they were using Mundorf AMT's thanks to a little partnership they have going on. The PSP choice in music and electronics is absolute crap, but Mundorf AMT's are state of the art. Eminence also has a very good reputation. Best,
Erik
So to answer your question.... I heard their open baffle systems as well as the Mundorf MA30 at a show. The rep was playing sounds that could barely be called music through equipment that was operating painfully beyond it's operating threshold, so I can't give you a specific answer as to the sound of the open baffle speakers, but I see no reason why that combination of drivers would not sound very good if well driven and playing actual music.
I do think the systems seem a big pricey if you have any sort of woodworking skills yourself and know how to measure and adjust a miniDSP unit.
Best,
Erik
I do think the systems seem a big pricey if you have any sort of woodworking skills yourself and know how to measure and adjust a miniDSP unit.
Best,
Erik
Theres been a few people that have cloned the PAP. myself included.
I've had a few DIY OB systems from GR Research....V1 and SuperV....but the
PAP is a different animal and I wanted to give them a try.
Easy to build, but I havnt had time to play with the mini DSP, so it wouldnt be fair to compare them to my GR gear right now.
I was lucky enough to get a schematic for the Trio using the Tang Bang 1808-8,
so in a few days I'll have them up and running the way they would of come
from PAP.
Here is a link to the build of the Trio and my other OBs.....post #2148
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/123512-ultimate-open-baffle-gallery-215.html
I've had a few DIY OB systems from GR Research....V1 and SuperV....but the
PAP is a different animal and I wanted to give them a try.
Easy to build, but I havnt had time to play with the mini DSP, so it wouldnt be fair to compare them to my GR gear right now.
I was lucky enough to get a schematic for the Trio using the Tang Bang 1808-8,
so in a few days I'll have them up and running the way they would of come
from PAP.
Here is a link to the build of the Trio and my other OBs.....post #2148
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/123512-ultimate-open-baffle-gallery-215.html
I am pretty sure Heil has been out of business for a while.
Best,
Erik
Actually they are back in business! ESS Labs., LLC – Sound As Clear As Light?
Thanks Eric for sharing your experience. It seems rather careless of PAP demoing their products using such apparently odd or unflattering music. Most likely they had their reasons. Might that have been Ze'ev who ran the demos? He was the one from PAP who first replied to my emails about their speakers. When I asked what amps sound best with their modded dual Eminence Alpha 15 woofers + Heil or Tang Band or Voxativ widebanders, he said his 2.5 wpc Bottlehead 2A3 tube amp sounds best to his ears. Not surprisingly, he did add that it doesn't sound very dynamic (?!), but claimed that the quality of the highs and mids well made up for it. Otherwise, the ~94db Trio 15 is supposed to go down to 32Hz. Trio15TB, Open Baffle Speakers - PureAudioProject Or 36Hz Trio15TB, Open Baffle Speakers - PureAudioProject But then if that 2A3 amp was driving those at the show maybe he deliberately avoided recordings with any respectably low end. Note in the specs however that impedance does drop to less than 4 ohms, though if this happens much above the midrange it shouldn't load down the amp very much, yes? For me perhaps the hardest thing would be deciding between the Heil AMT, Tang Band and Voxativ drivers. Ze'ev did try to distinguish their sonic signatures but it still won't be easy without actually hearing them.
Your diy works are really stunning. Coincidentally, as you had used AE Dipole 12, in your OBs, I had asked Ze'ev about why they stopped using the Dipole 15s. He said they offer very clean bass because they needed to be pushed harder and essentially required active crossovers. Otherwise, they couldn't be crossed high enough to blend with their widebanders. Indeed, I was thinking of having John Janowitz build my OBs, but had doubts about the Dipole 6 midrange. And thanks for taking on the PAP + Tang Band project. Have you ever heard the Heil AMT used in any kind of project? Ze'v said that it has a truly 3D presentation but what else might it do for female vocals and instruments? Funny you should mention DSP. For all of its obvious benefits, it's still a tool that I'd rather avoid using, if only because I'd spending a lot on a main system DAC with very clean and sweet sounding output stage. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plan...n-obs-esls-sound-without-dsp.html#post4881006 Last, but not least-since I can only afford one or the other speaker: Has anyone here actually heard a pair of expertly restored Quad 57 ESLs, and perhaps with fast, good quality sealed subs?
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pure audio project is a waste of time imo. by normal speaker standards they are bad, and as a dipole it gets much worse. looks like he just puts random drivers on the same baffle. absurd distances and crossover points. no eq, no nothing. the acoustic design looks like almost the recipe for a poor powerresponse. by the looks of it he doesnt even understand the correlation between frequency and wavelenght.
no common sense, no theory, no specs, no measurements....alot of people seem to believe a dipole speaker is as simple as removing the box.
no common sense, no theory, no specs, no measurements....alot of people seem to believe a dipole speaker is as simple as removing the box.
Opinions.....are made after comparisons....your speculating and assuming.
I've stopped speculating and assuming.
I own a set (actually my second set) of coaxial 12" pro drivers set upon dual 12" servo subs, all on Open baffle.
They sound SO much better than you would assume or speculate...
Same goes for a double row of 3" driver arrays I own.
You would assume or speculate that that just cant work, but after actually
listening to them.....wow, just wow.
Both the above designed by competent and well known designers in the States.....GR Research and Selah Audio
I havnt had the time to work on the PAP.....tis the season.
I've set them up with the mini DSP, but havnt made an effort to even try
and dial them in. I've been lucky enough to get my hands on the croossover
schem, so in a week I'll have them to compare as well.
Then I'll offer up my opinion.
I will say, they sound better, even like this, than I would of assumed or speculated. I'll add that, in my opinion, they need a good sub.....
And yet they are selling well and they are getting good reviews at shows. What does that say about all of the things you have listed above?
Which recent show ?
The PAP people announced they were going to exhibit at a major recent show.
I'm sorry to say that i don't remember exactly which show, but it was easily within the last year. I never did see a review. Perhaps you can point us in the right direction ? I would love to be able to audition a pair. Thanks.
(Within the USA)
The PAP people announced they were going to exhibit at a major recent show.
I'm sorry to say that i don't remember exactly which show, but it was easily within the last year. I never did see a review. Perhaps you can point us in the right direction ? I would love to be able to audition a pair. Thanks.
(Within the USA)
Scott? I hear you are a fan of open baffle speakers
No idea about where to hear them. My comment was more of a pretend zen koan
A fair review, I'd say. He does go into detail about how the "OB Bass" is
a different kind of bass. And the prospective purchaser shall decide.
Thanks for sharing those links, oltos. I have the TB driver and would agree it sounds better tilted back. I also have the Alpha 15 but power the woofer with a sub amp while driving the TB with a digital amp. This system can be built by a DIYer without the high cost of the kit. I've packed up the TB for a while now. As great as it could sound I've moved on curious about other drivers. The Voxitiv driver seems like a very good performer based on the comments in the review.
Thanks Godzilla for chiming about the Tang Band. Though we usually get what we pay for in this “hobby” (as my brother prefers to call it to annoy me), does anyone have any experience using Audio Nirvana drivers?
A pair of the Classic Alnico 8+ are half the price of the Vocative 1.6. https://www.voxativ-store.com/Fullrange-Drivers/AC-1-6::20.html Fullrange Loudspeakers. DIY Loudspeakers. Loudspeaker kits. Audio Nirvana, Lowther, Fostex. Vacuum Tube Amplifiers For Sale
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/an8classic8+alnicospecs.jpg
How well might it work in the Trio 15? Trio15 Open Baffle SpeakersLarge 3D soundstage? Imaging with lifelike spatial placement of vocals and instruments? Holographic, tonally spot on midrange for female vocals, with no forwardness? Displaying each instrument as a whole and how it interacted within the recording venue. Airy, tinkling, highs with extension but no brightness or etched textures. Smooth subtle, liquid, clean?
