I heard two @ RMAF. One with a tangband wideranger and another with what appeared to me a Morel midrange or big tweeter. I really like the latter. I was surprised to hear that the bass drivers had a very high Qts; I never thought I would have liked the sound of such drivers. I would not be ashamed of these speakers and I have heard many.
Poole's law: Nothing is so good that someone somewhere won't just hate it.
Poole's law: Nothing is so good that someone somewhere won't just hate it.
Hi there J: Would you post more information on the relation a passive crossover has to sound quality for OB speakers. ...regards, Michael and Merry Christmas to you and all.
I run low qts 15" drivers on my OB's and like them very much.
They need to be equalised as they have less bass than high qts drivers.
This can be difficult to implement passively, but can be done. I used MiniDSP.
Current-source amps (high output impedance) can work well with low qts drivers and equalisation may not be required.
Cheers. Mike
They need to be equalised as they have less bass than high qts drivers.
This can be difficult to implement passively, but can be done. I used MiniDSP.
Current-source amps (high output impedance) can work well with low qts drivers and equalisation may not be required.
Cheers. Mike
If No OBs in Town, How Wrong Can I Go with Quad 57s?
As it happens PDRCanada seems to be bent on cloning the Trio15 with the Tang Band W8. I was hoping that he might have used something like the http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/an8classicalnicospecs.jpg or this http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/an8classic8+alnicospecs.jpg But he will probably have the build done not long after New Years. And he's using the same woofers it should be an interesting test.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/123512-ultimate-open-baffle-gallery-215.html
Fat lot of good it will do me though. Since 2008 I've refused to ever again risk my ears to air travel. PAP will be at Axpona in April so I'll miss that too; and Ze'ev doesn't plan any shows in New York next year. I know only one guy who builds OBs on Long Island, but he's clearly not into giving auditions. I even tried googling with all manner of syntax to find someone with OBs in NYC, Manhattan, Brooklyn. Zero. It's truly a no-win situation with OBs. Overpopulated and overtaxed downstate New York is truly an audiophile's no-man's land. And I can't afford to build OBs or anything else that doesn't seriously wow me on the first try.
Not surprisingly, I've equally struck out just as badly trying for SoundLab ESL sessions-not that I could afford even the smallest and least costly model-though sometimes owners do sell them for nice prices.
Just one stroke of luck-maybe: After googling for days, I found someone who has a pair of PK-restored Quad 57s. He's 20 minutes away! He drives them with a Wavelength Duetto 300B SET amp fed by a Wavelength Crimson DAC. I think the session may actually happen next month. If I end up loving 90% of what I hear, then-against your advice of going only with stacked Quads-it will have to be the single Quads by default. I've got to get off this road to no-where.
But I do wish that someone (Roger West?) would devise a way to eliminate the Quad 57's "head in vise" HF vertical and/or lateral sweet spot that the world's been complaining about since Day 1.
Not that this alone is a deal maker but Ze'ev Schlick claims bass in the low 30s with the new Eminence Trio 15s woofers even if placed only 20cm from the rear wall. And talk about efficient: He said he drive's his Trio15/Voxativs with a 2A3 amp! A 300B SET amp may not sound as sweet in the highs as the 2A3 does, but imagine what it would do for the midrange and midbass. Ze'ev also says that these Eminence woofers play high up enough to cross with any of the widebanders they offer. Presumably this synergy is what eliminates the need for active crossovers and DSP. Expediency is not the path to good sound, much less audio nirvana, but why add a/d/a conversion if you don't have to?If (big if) they get the crossover right the kits should sound good. Many OB speaker builders do not get the crossover right - I've done my share of bad ones.There are good builds right here on this forum, no need to look any further.
As it happens PDRCanada seems to be bent on cloning the Trio15 with the Tang Band W8. I was hoping that he might have used something like the http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/an8classicalnicospecs.jpg or this http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/an8classic8+alnicospecs.jpg But he will probably have the build done not long after New Years. And he's using the same woofers it should be an interesting test.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/123512-ultimate-open-baffle-gallery-215.html
Fat lot of good it will do me though. Since 2008 I've refused to ever again risk my ears to air travel. PAP will be at Axpona in April so I'll miss that too; and Ze'ev doesn't plan any shows in New York next year. I know only one guy who builds OBs on Long Island, but he's clearly not into giving auditions. I even tried googling with all manner of syntax to find someone with OBs in NYC, Manhattan, Brooklyn. Zero. It's truly a no-win situation with OBs. Overpopulated and overtaxed downstate New York is truly an audiophile's no-man's land. And I can't afford to build OBs or anything else that doesn't seriously wow me on the first try.
Not surprisingly, I've equally struck out just as badly trying for SoundLab ESL sessions-not that I could afford even the smallest and least costly model-though sometimes owners do sell them for nice prices.
Just one stroke of luck-maybe: After googling for days, I found someone who has a pair of PK-restored Quad 57s. He's 20 minutes away! He drives them with a Wavelength Duetto 300B SET amp fed by a Wavelength Crimson DAC. I think the session may actually happen next month. If I end up loving 90% of what I hear, then-against your advice of going only with stacked Quads-it will have to be the single Quads by default. I've got to get off this road to no-where.
But I do wish that someone (Roger West?) would devise a way to eliminate the Quad 57's "head in vise" HF vertical and/or lateral sweet spot that the world's been complaining about since Day 1.
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That many people think any old junk sounds good ?!
No they're not. Using the Q of the driver is just one way to apply EQ to the low end (and IMVHO a pretty poor choice). Many good dipole speaker designs use low Q drivers.
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Take some time to study Martin King's work. There's an elegance in simple solutions, brute force can be ugly.
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"Any old junk" is a bit harsh unless you have heard it and you really believe it. The market is so competitive now that junk does not get a lot of attention for very long
What I was getting at is that some things are more important than others to get convincing sound reproduction and maybe this design gets there with the right set of compromises
Worth considering anyway I would have thought?
My thoughts exactly, regarding these offerings.
Home - PureAudioProject And save for the paltry bass extension in this model, this guy thought that it truly measured up to his Quad 2805s. http://stereotimes.com/post/pure-audio-project-trio10-mundorfamt-loudspeakers/The fact is I'd love to have OBs but I'm no kind of DIY brianiac and have no time to learn how to be one with a mortgage to pay off, et al. I did think about having someone clone Martin King's passive H-Frames with the 18" Goldwoods, but that British windbander is discontinued. Martin doesn't build to order and I've yet to find an OB designer who's built anything he/she's sold that I can go and hear without traveling hundreds of miles.
So it looks like PAP OBs, which have at least been reviewed several times, and very favorably, are the only route for me. Also, I think they do offer a custom mod service, where, with their guidance, you can optimize your build for price, room size, bass response, etc.
I heard some Pure Audio Project Trio15 speakers with two different tweeters at the september meeting of the Audio Society of Minnesota. I was sitting near the back of the roughly 30'x40' room and they seemed excessively bassy and a bit 'warm' with the TB fullranger. The impression remained as I moved around a bit. The planar tweeters (when substituted in) gave some needed sparkle. I was not listening anywhere near the sweet spot, but some who were preferred the Beymas as well, IIRC.
Maybe they attempted to add the "BOOM" to compensate for the acoustic short circuit, aka front-to-back cancellation of the open baffle woofers?
I know that what carver did, in his AMAZING di-poles.
But the BOOM, may indeed be room sensitive !!
So.....
These are really nice, REALLY nice.
I wasnt impressed with the mini dsp....and shouldnt of been,
I put very little effort because I wanted to hear them with the
passive cross over. They've been in my room for a few months now
and I was really under whelmed, I didnt think the new cross over
would bring THAT much to the table....wow.
So these are going to stay put.
I needed a nicer look to them so decided to build a new, nicer baffle.
Not modular like the PAP, if I upgrade I'll mod the panel
or build a new one.
I went with a kind of barn wood look. We live rural, raise horses
and live the life so I thought these could reflect that a bit.
I used 3/4"Pine board so the back had to be braced very well.
The back of the panel has an old wood look to it.
A pic of the back with the braces....
One of them completed, sitting in the shop.
Heres a couple of the fronts sitting in their new home.
These things are the real monte.....great deal all and all.
These are really nice, REALLY nice.
I wasnt impressed with the mini dsp....and shouldnt of been,
I put very little effort because I wanted to hear them with the
passive cross over. They've been in my room for a few months now
and I was really under whelmed, I didnt think the new cross over
would bring THAT much to the table....wow.
So these are going to stay put.
I needed a nicer look to them so decided to build a new, nicer baffle.
Not modular like the PAP, if I upgrade I'll mod the panel
or build a new one.
I went with a kind of barn wood look. We live rural, raise horses
and live the life so I thought these could reflect that a bit.
I used 3/4"Pine board so the back had to be braced very well.
The back of the panel has an old wood look to it.
A pic of the back with the braces....
One of them completed, sitting in the shop.
Heres a couple of the fronts sitting in their new home.
These things are the real monte.....great deal all and all.
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