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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

New Celestion "AxiPeriodic Driver"
New Celestion "AxiPeriodic Driver"
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Old 11th February 2019, 02:02 PM   #161
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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For some of my B&C drivers, 2 different suspensions are available. The differences are subtly visible in measurements, but clearly audible.

Last edited by Ro808; 11th February 2019 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 11th February 2019, 02:08 PM   #162
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Somewhere in the "Geddes on Waveguides" thread, Dr. Geddes refers to compression drivers as "commodities".

This is an original replacement 3" diaphragm for a Celestion 2" exit driver.
Look for the differences.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2 inch Diaphragm (Official Celestion CD2-3065).jpg (497.0 KB, 226 views)

Last edited by Ro808; 11th February 2019 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 11th February 2019, 04:50 PM   #163
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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In this thread BMS 4592 vs Radian Beryllium, there's some background info on popular - and obtainable - large format drivers.

There are quite a few drivers on the market which - at least on paper - are more or less capable of the performance claimed for the Axi2050.

The BMS Coax drivers are probably first to come to mind. However, I doubt these are good enough for critical listening. Many professionals share this opinion.
The design is overly complicated and the indispensable crossover doesn't help either to blend the mids with the highs. The peak in the response around 18-20kHz is just one of the issues.
Besides, these drivers are very expensive - especially the HE editions - and very sensible to characteristics of the attached horn.
In conclusion: not really worth their price for domestic use.
The fact these are widely available on the used market, makes one wonder.

JBL D2430K, I am quite sure these sound better than the BMS Coax drivers, but cannot be used below 500Hz.
Members from the heritageaudio forum prefer some of the older 4" drivers to the 2430K when mounted on the M2 waveguide. Quite surprising, given the fact the old drivers are technically worlds apart from the 2430K and the M2 definitely wasn't designed to be used with the large format drivers.

Many 3" diaphragm drivers are available with either 1.4 or 2" exit from
B&C, Faital-Pro, 18Sound, RCF, Celestion, Fane, Precision Devices, Beyma, Oberton, Radian, Pyle, P-Audio, PRV, Eminence... you name it.

Last edited by Ro808; 11th February 2019 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 11th February 2019, 05:01 PM   #164
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
A (thin) mesh grille is visible on the published images of the driver. This is a necessity in some PA environments to prevent debris from penetrating the driver's inards.
The thin mesh "bug screens" are not just for PA environments.
There are around 100 different species of arthropod (spiders, insects, centipedes, and mites) inhabiting the average home- many of which would be happy to crawl into an unprotected driver entrance and either weave a web, or lay eggs, or die, or some combination of each.
Bugs inside a compression driver are never good for hi-fidelity.
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Old 11th February 2019, 05:11 PM   #165
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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weltersys, I completely agree.
Anybody who has bought used drivers with the horns attached, knows what you mean.
At least, I had to remove insects and spiderwebs from several bugscreens.

Still, some people (Geddes a.o.) remove the screens.
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Old 11th February 2019, 05:24 PM   #166
Omholt is offline Omholt  Norway
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New Celestion "AxiPeriodic Driver"
With what bug does it sound the best?
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Old 11th February 2019, 09:01 PM   #167
silverprout is offline silverprout  France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
For some of my B&C drivers, 2 different suspensions are available. The differences are subtly visible in measurements, but clearly audible.
What is the difference please ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
A (thin) mesh grille is visible on the published images of the driver. This is a necessity in some PA environments to prevent debris from penetrating the driver's inards.
In my country we have small insects that we call "bestioles d'orange", they are small enough to go between the computers LCD panel and the backlight panel where the space is under 0.1mm.
The Thysanoptera :
Thysanoptera — Wikipedia
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Last edited by silverprout; 11th February 2019 at 09:04 PM. Reason: errors...sorry
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Old 11th February 2019, 10:02 PM   #168
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by silverprout View Post
What is the difference please ?
Left is a Titanium diaphragm with a Titanium suspension consisting of radial ribs.
Right is a Titanium diaphragm with Mylar suspension.

There are at least 10 compression drivers in which each of these diaphragms can be used.
Each driver does sound different with each diaphragm and 2 randomly picked drivers which the same diaphram will sound (though sometimes maginally) different due to differences in magnet structure, phase plug design, conic exit sections, the addition of ferro fluid, shorting rings etc.

Last edited by Ro808; 11th February 2019 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 11th February 2019, 10:49 PM   #169
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Customized versions of these diaphragms have also been developed...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1.JPG (69.6 KB, 175 views)
File Type: jpg 2.JPG (61.2 KB, 176 views)
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Old 12th February 2019, 04:46 PM   #170
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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What Celestion is trying to accomplish is impressive, an admirable technological tour de force.
The question remains if the driver is worth the expected high price, if it becomes available as non-oem driver at all.
Furthermore, it remains to be seen whether the Axi2050 really lives up to expectations > allowing to be used from 300Hz (or lower) up to 20kHz.

At home, the high output such drivers (Axi2050, BMS 4599HE etc.) are capable of, is unnecessary. High sensitivity is desirable though, as is constant coverage.

There's a large group of Beryllium afficionado's within the DIY community.
I don't doubt the merits of Beryllium, but I don't like its toxicity as well as the ridiculous costs of mining and processing the raw material.
However, if you want the best, most refined mid/high driver there's no substitute for Beryllium. Perhaps, until Graphene or other nano materials become applicable in the near future.

Obvious Candidates are Radian 951 BE and 18Sound ND4015BE, both of which are offered for 1400-1500. For "even" less you could score a used TAD 4001 or 4002, with the expensive risk of damaged diaphragms.

I am not convinced the Radian drivers can be comfortably used from 350-400Hz. Anyway, their output in the top octave leaves much to be desired.

diyaudio member superlian bought a pair ND1415BEs and took some measurements: high pass 400 Hz 48 dB in the active crossover under the measurements and a 47 uF capacitor for protection.

Quite impressive and better than BE JBLs, according to him.


In the third image are Vance Dickason's measurements of the same driver (and probably not the best horn).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 18Sound ND1415BE_3.jpg (531.2 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg 18Sound ND1415BE_2.jpg (762.8 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg ND4015BE_VD_All.jpg (1,019.7 KB, 78 views)

Last edited by Ro808; 12th February 2019 at 05:13 PM.
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