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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 15th June 2016, 02:06 PM   #51
natehansen66 is offline natehansen66  United States
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Very cool project! The low pattern control is impressive and very clever. I might have to borrow that idea in the future 😉

I need to make more time for speakers...
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Old 16th June 2016, 01:08 AM   #52
jblauvelt is offline jblauvelt  United States
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I'm following along too. Bill, I am assuming that the cabinet is meant to orient the horn such that it is wider than it is tall? (opposite of the pic where you have it outside)
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Old 16th June 2016, 10:25 PM   #53
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Yeah, the photo was made when I was looking at vertical angle at the time. The horn should be wide-side-horizontal.
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Old 17th June 2016, 09:42 AM   #54
hasselbaink is offline hasselbaink  Denmark
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Hi guys,

Would it make sense to get the big SEOS24 or 30 waveguides and turn them into Syns?
I would guess that the 2" throat version would be best as it cuts down distance to the mid drivers.

Best, Kris
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Old 17th June 2016, 04:39 PM   #55
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasselbaink View Post
Would it make sense to get the big SEOS24 or 30 waveguides and turn them into Syns?
I would guess that the 2" throat version would be best as it cuts down distance to the mid drivers.
But starting with a larger HF throat also will result in some beaming and (usually) breakup in the highest octave. Even a 1" compression driver and throat shows narrowing up near 15kHz and other than some beryllium diaphram types, are getting into breakup up there.

But several people here have made synergyish horns with larger throats and liking the results. Weltersys and XRK971 have both made synergys using larger cone fullranges and a large throat for HF. Cask05 made a pair of big synergies starting with a Klipsch K402 30-something inch horn, using a 1.4" throat, and swears by it. Those probably work because, while we all think we hear to 20kHz, and many claim to have been 'tested' to beyond that (though audiologist's gear doesn't function that high!) not many really hear with much significant sensitivity to even 15kHz.
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Old 17th June 2016, 11:09 PM   #56
Beau is offline Beau
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Id love to do one with a seos24 loaded with a Aurasound whisper driver.
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Old 18th June 2016, 04:51 AM   #57
zobsky is offline zobsky  India
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derfnofred View Post
Oh, absolutely, but if I remember right, you have an abundance of amps lying around.

For the rest of us, AV receivers with bypassed inputs (i.e. no post processing) are dirt cheap, and at low levels, good enough. Well, at least the sonic benefits of active vs. passive can move the price point of the amp well down. That said, it'd be amusing to see someone with 1 AV receiver spitting out it's pre-outs to a massive X-over box (N channels x M-way) to a respective half-dozen inexpensive AV receivers to power it all.

I jest...sort of.

And to add--thanks, of course, for documenting your adventures!
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Old 18th June 2016, 03:21 PM   #58
Eldam is offline Eldam  France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
But starting with a larger HF throat also will result in some beaming and (usually) breakup in the highest octave. Even a 1" compression driver and throat shows narrowing up near 15kHz and other than some beryllium diaphram types, are getting into breakup up there.

But several people here have made synergyish horns with larger throats and liking the results. Weltersys and XRK971 have both made synergys using larger cone fullranges and a large throat for HF. Cask05 made a pair of big synergies starting with a Klipsch K402 30-something inch horn, using a 1.4" throat, and swears by it. Those probably work because, while we all think we hear to 20kHz, and many claim to have been 'tested' to beyond that (though audiologist's gear doesn't function that high!) not many really hear with much significant sensitivity to even 15kHz.
Very interresting thread again,

My understanding about the challenge with these drivers is their off axis in a horn when the frequencies raises.... But not having a XO higher than 2K in a speaker is certainly a good idea if we believe all the designers through the world...

Now with the foam horns xrq971 experienced more than many, it should be also possible to have a close center to center tweeter above the 8K Hz by piercing the foam horn with a little K-tube for tweeter. The delay being setuped in FIR domain. The idea is a 3/4 tube is not so intrusive for the horn response !
Of course this for people whom like to use 2" or a little greater at the apex and whom need a tweeter yet for polar needs more than highs (for instance like Troels Gravsen WHo XO a SS 10F full range at 3K Hz ! my idea with the K-tube tweeter would be more upon 8K)

The idea also of xrq971 and likes was the cone drivers are more linear and less distorsed while may have the profit of horn efficienty for domestic spl level.

Now I'm very curious of all these compression drivers with their new materials : which can be good between 1 to 1.5K HJz to ....15/18 even 20 K Hz.... (so without the need of a tweeter cause their strong motor allow dispersion lense at their outputt for the off axis highs).

My feeling (but having no clue about horns) is to use them with apex at the same size in relation to their outputt to have the best behavior about distorsion. The game being to find the more linear compression !

I'm looking forward to hear what about this Peerless and likes.... cause there is not only a soundstage in a speaker. Btw I'm asking also if the reason is Something like the 400 000 law when it comes to have a shorted high end (in relation to the low end...) and a good sound.

Last edited by Eldam; 18th June 2016 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 18th June 2016, 06:39 PM   #59
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Hi Eldam,

Quote:
But not having a XO higher than 2K in a speaker is certainly a good idea if we believe all the designers through the world...
Maybe I'm too much a measurements guy, but -- if the crossed-over drivers are concentric, and the response (and maybe the phase?) is done so that the crossover point isn't identifiable with either polar or on-axis measurements, I don't see how it would matter where the crossover is. I certainly don't hear the crossover point in my 'Cosyne' synergys, and people who have heard it (and who didn't know the build details) have not been able to tell how many drivers there are. Since all the sound comes from the same horn, the usual assumption is that it is some kind of full-range.
--
Are there any measured curves of K-tubes around? Build threads I've seen never seem to show any. I know the (few) response curves I've seen of Karlson bass cabinets looked almost random and far from good!
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Old 18th June 2016, 06:54 PM   #60
Eldam is offline Eldam  France
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I believe this is because you know very well how to make a passive crossover as you already prove it with your speaker (the avatar and the nice pdf ) !

I saw some posts about it, measurements I don't know ! The goal behind this odd idea (certainly bad) is to make closer the c to c in vertical position without // the tube and the fat driver at the apex (it can be a little curved or simply angled to approach the apex driver while having space enough at the opposite side to load it with a driver).

Now it's certainly simplier to putt at the apex a tweeter and close 2" or 4" firering through the synergy ports around it ...

I like the larger width than the deep, is there a goal behind that instead making a narower tower (else than putting the cabinets on shelves near a wall) ?

Last edited by Eldam; 18th June 2016 at 07:01 PM.
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