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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Small Syns
Small Syns
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Old 30th August 2018, 02:03 PM   #421
t3steve is offline t3steve
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Location: El Dorado Hills, CA
How much does it cost to build the Small Syns?
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Old 31st August 2018, 10:59 AM   #422
soho54 is offline soho54  United States
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smallsyns ported + xover 12in from wall

c1 100uf 027-360
c2 20uf 027-436
c3 1.1uf
c4 5.1uf 027-423 or 027-232
c5 15uf 027-344 ((optional))
c6
c7 1uf 027-410
c8 12uf 027-162
c9 5.1uf 027-423 or 027-232


r1 16
r2 12 20watt ((optional))
r3 15 015-15
r4
r5 2 016-2
r6 7.5 (3-15 ohm mid trim)


l1 3.5mh 266-916 or 266-560
l2 0.8mh 255-044
l3
l4 1.5mh 266-900 or 266-554
l5 0.8mh 255-044
l6
l7 1.5mh 266-832


Peerless DFM-2535R00-08 264-1420

FaitalPRO 6FE100 294-1150
FaitalPRO 6FE100 294-1150

SEOS-15 Waveguide $36.00

Celestion TF0410MR $22.30

A $268.87
B $291.91 upgraded inductor options
+wood, wire, fasteners, & terminals
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Old 31st August 2018, 05:26 PM   #423
t3steve is offline t3steve
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Thank you.
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Old 28th October 2018, 08:56 AM   #424
stretchneck is offline stretchneck  United Kingdom
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I've never heard this type of speaker before - any chance of a youtube clip so I can get a feel for how they sound using my reference IEMs?

Are these Small Syns suitable for near / on wall placement?
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Old 28th October 2018, 05:53 PM   #425
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Small Syns
I doubt a youtube recording would be a good example of their sound for the trouble of setting it up. One of the most noticeable characteristics of point source waveguide speakers is that is very hard to perceive the location of the speakers or that the sound is coming from speakers. "Disappearing Act" is the term I think, It takes some effort to sense that any sound is coming from those places at all. Maybe the IEMs would make it more valid, dunno. If I find myself with spare time inside I might give it a go.

One of the design goals was to be used against a wall, since that's the situation I have for a system here. Has some advantages in terms of low end efficiency, but some disadvantages in terms of perceived image depth (the delayed reflection off a wall behind speakers can enhance that). I've recently added some BMR "ambience drivers" radiating some energy up the wall and to the sides, fed by a delayed signal of about 15msec, which helps depth illusion significantly and livens up the room sound in the rather damped room.

They will of course work away from a wall, too, but probably would need a bit more low-end boost or adjustment to a sub. As they are, my sealed ones are being used against a wall with a "Linkwitz Transform" to move the lower f3 down to about 50Hz. Hideable subs are being built for them though. Will be interesting to see whether subs work much better than the Linkwitz transform on them -- I'm sure it would with LOUD sound, but I don't often play very loud.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Last edited by bwaslo; 28th October 2018 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 28th October 2018, 08:05 PM   #426
stretchneck is offline stretchneck  United Kingdom
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Wow - that's amazing. Your design choices are everything I've ever wished for. So glad I found this thread. Once the details of the BMR "ambience drivers" and hideable subs are complete I'd definitely like to try my hand at building these. I had never considered synergy horns before now.

Any feedback on their transient response? Another design that has interested me of late is the Mini Karlsonator - some sound clips given which are nice to give you a feel for it. I am considering this design as a basis for a sub as it has very fast transient, but I am unsure if they would work well in near wall placement. I look forward to the info on your hidable subs. I find near full range 30Hz to 20kHz to be fine and less demanding on an untreated room.

Last edited by stretchneck; 28th October 2018 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 28th October 2018, 08:28 PM   #427
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Small Syns
The ambience drivers are installed and running, probably not going to change much (though I might try scrambling their phase response with FIR if I get around to it). The highpass at around 1500Hz and the 15msec delay is being handled by a minidsp 2x4HD, which also serves as my DAC with its other two output channels. There's a short thread about them here: Ambience tweeters using small BMR drivers

The hidden subs are basically flat-ish boxes that will fill about 4" behind the credenza in the photo. About 1cuft each (28 liters to you, since you're in a country with rational measurement units!), will be sealed but have a Linkwitz transform operating to work down to about 30Hz. Two mirror image boxes like so:
Small Syns-sub-dwng-png

Using the very low profile 10" sub drivers (LS10-44) from Dayton Audio, driver face toward the wall push sound out the gap to the sides. Will have 300W amp boards and active filter circuit inside the cabinets. The boxes are built but waiting for some stain to come in so I can get the boards on the side and top that might show to match the teak credenza. Hope it all doesn;t cause too much wall vibration set up like that.
Attached Images
File Type: png sub dwng.png (3.9 KB, 801 views)
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Last edited by bwaslo; 28th October 2018 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 29th October 2018, 08:18 AM   #428
stretchneck is offline stretchneck  United Kingdom
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Brilliant work - will be interesting if the walls standup to this as well... if you could detail your wall type when you post the results. I presume these are freestanding and its just that you're using the the wall behind the speaker as a virtual springboard (bit like the Dutch & Dutch 8c).
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Old 15th April 2019, 07:54 PM   #429
ehiunno is offline ehiunno  United States
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I've recently started building these, very clear instructions thanks for the detailed write up.

Couple of questions
1 - Do you have the cutout measurement for the SEOS-15? I've been waiting for a while for Erich to get these back in stock and I can't make any more progress without it.
2 - I don't think I saw the driver crossover target filters anywhere. Do you have them? Planning on running active.
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Old 16th April 2019, 04:43 AM   #430
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Bill -

If you could measure the height, width and depth of the SEOS 15, I could put together a 3D model that people can print. It sounds like the waveguide you used is no longer available.

If you could measure the distance from the throat to the center of the midrange mounting plate, I could also include that in the model. That would simplify construction of the Small Syns.

I'm still enjoying your CoSynes but I might just build the Small Syns too.
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