Well, maybe the voicing works for his listening room but might not for others.
This is one of the drawbacks of building a kit designed by someone else, as it has been tuned in to his listening room.
For example, my room is not large but still needs 5-6dB compensation, say 100Hz starting point and I bet this SB 3-way will be lean in my room.
Finally, I continue to say that a published design sensitivity/baffle-step compensation should relate to an endless wall in terms of sensitivity rather than someone's room.
This is one of the drawbacks of building a kit designed by someone else, as it has been tuned in to his listening room.
For example, my room is not large but still needs 5-6dB compensation, say 100Hz starting point and I bet this SB 3-way will be lean in my room.
Finally, I continue to say that a published design sensitivity/baffle-step compensation should relate to an endless wall in terms of sensitivity rather than someone's room.
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I consider 6dB (flat) perfect amount of BSC (200 in regard to 1000 hertz). That way, with good positioning of loudspeakers in room one can get good and balanced sound.
When you know it's flat anechoic then every problem you observe when measuring in room response is room induced and much of it is placement specific.
When you know it's flat anechoic then every problem you observe when measuring in room response is room induced and much of it is placement specific.
So how can you name enough baffle-step compensated for this speaker with 87dB? The infinite-baffle sensitivity of the woofer is 88dB, this is still only 1dB difference.
And why do builders report problems with tonal balance? Is this a coincidence?
Somebody wants to place the speakers far away from the walls or have a large room with little room gain.
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Crossover frequency between woofer and midrange is at 200Hz. Wavelenght of that frequency is 1.7m so unless your loudspeaker is 1.7 meters or further of back wall, it will behave almost as on the infinite baffle.
Also, when crossing that low, it will usually form a hump bellow 100Hz so you can easily get excess energy lower. Notch on his woofer probably has some high value coil (>10mH), large capacitor and not large enough resistor which in turn makes the impedance in that place plummets to about three ohm - but he needed to do that to fix the frequency response bump. Looking at impedance phase, i'd say it is centered at circa 50Hz.
EDIT: I stopped reading his writings on his designs long time ago. I read it now and i see he wrote what he did with notch on woofer which is in line with what i wrote.
Also, when crossing that low, it will usually form a hump bellow 100Hz so you can easily get excess energy lower. Notch on his woofer probably has some high value coil (>10mH), large capacitor and not large enough resistor which in turn makes the impedance in that place plummets to about three ohm - but he needed to do that to fix the frequency response bump. Looking at impedance phase, i'd say it is centered at circa 50Hz.
EDIT: I stopped reading his writings on his designs long time ago. I read it now and i see he wrote what he did with notch on woofer which is in line with what i wrote.
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How so, are you missing some bass or there is lots of it from 6dB bsc speakers ?
If you're having problems of that sort then welcome to the modal region of the room
that can only be corrected by repositioning speakers, room treatment or multiple subwoofers or all three combined.
Andrew Jones - industry professional - worked for a whole day to position Elac Debut B6 on one of the hifi shows in US to get the tonal balance in his listening room. He is professional and needed a whole day until he was pleased. Why would it be any different for any listening room - but most of us aren't Andrew Jones so we can expect a bit more time moving the bastards around our rooms till we get the sound that is worth listening
If you're having problems of that sort then welcome to the modal region of the room
that can only be corrected by repositioning speakers, room treatment or multiple subwoofers or all three combined.Andrew Jones - industry professional - worked for a whole day to position Elac Debut B6 on one of the hifi shows in US to get the tonal balance in his listening room. He is professional and needed a whole day until he was pleased. Why would it be any different for any listening room - but most of us aren't Andrew Jones so we can expect a bit more time moving the bastards around our rooms till we get the sound that is worth listening
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25mm makes a difference somewhere, not elsewhere, but even if doing it is not sure that it is going in the right direction and that it is tied to a particular position which is not necessarily the best.
This is starting to go off-topic, but my room is just as if the lowest frequencies would be amplified only by room-gain, say below 60Hz.
By the way, I just wanted to point out that the speakers designed by TG do not necessarily work everywhere and I wrote an example of why and I don't think I would be alone.
My speakers thank you very much, they sound good because they work in the room where they were designed.
However, somebody else pays for the DIY plans but doesn't get help from the seller to fit into his room and just say that he needs to put on more carpets.
After all, I understand TG at some level, because there are so many variations, but as I wrote this is one of the drawbacks if you use someone else's DIY plans and you can't change it to your liking, in the absence of measurements.
This is starting to go off-topic, but my room is just as if the lowest frequencies would be amplified only by room-gain, say below 60Hz.
By the way, I just wanted to point out that the speakers designed by TG do not necessarily work everywhere and I wrote an example of why and I don't think I would be alone.
My speakers thank you very much, they sound good because they work in the room where they were designed.
However, somebody else pays for the DIY plans but doesn't get help from the seller to fit into his room and just say that he needs to put on more carpets.
After all, I understand TG at some level, because there are so many variations, but as I wrote this is one of the drawbacks if you use someone else's DIY plans and you can't change it to your liking, in the absence of measurements.
I think you can. You can measure and put the resulting graphs into something like xsim and see what happens when you play, or you can play with eq on the computer and see that you want say 3db down at 1k and 5db down at 12 k, then again you can play. That is how I tune my speakers to the room. Ttoels designs are his best effort to fit any room, and will always be a poor compromise on what can be achieved.
@Zvu
EXACTLY my thoughts!!! Thats why I'm listening with my bass port partially stuffed/sealed. Also when I was experimenting with DSP EQ I found out that even as little as 0.5 db attenuation is very notable i suppose due to room gain multiplier... So my plan is to try simple L pad on bass.
tried it... sounded awful! At least on tweeter. I have reduced attenuation on mid slightly. You would'n believe how much room plays role in bass gain. when I was playng with placement in one place I had 20db peak on 65hz and just 10 cm from there almost flat
In the end I'm planning attenuating with L-Pad for less then 1db also improved the lowest point on impedance curve slightly. There are other problems there but I can not discuss it openly since I was more than once reminded that I must keep the XO values confidential
However TG openhanded accepted my remark that R11 on bass is heavily underrated and said he will change it to 4 resistors in parallel in future kits... I burned my finger on it after playing slow sine sweeps on bass...
Of course that was before "I insulted" him
I have checked my crossovers many times but maybe a different eye...
For the damping material you are the second person giving me that advise so I may proceed...
I have tried the pillows behind the tweeters but no change really.
Fab
L-pad on woofer, though feasible, is not particularly good idea. If i'd make some atenuation of that sort, i'd probably use series woofer coil for it. Rdc can be anything from 0.25-1 ohm. Any larger value than that and i'd do biamping.
I tried 4 ohm series coil for a specific subwoofer aplication some 10 years ago. It worked without a problem but the coil got warm (not hot) when playing really loud. You'd need heck of a resistors to make an L-pad that would be immune to that. Not to mention the decadency of spending so much power on fancy heater
Changing series rdc in front of woofer will affect the Q of the speaker but since you are using it sealed, it is negligible.
The smartest thing would be, in my opinion, to totally redesign the crossover or to use biamping: woofer on one amp, mid-hi on another with the existing crossover.
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