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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

BMS 4592 vs Radian Beryllium
BMS 4592 vs Radian Beryllium
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Old 6th March 2016, 06:22 PM   #1
tubesandhorns is offline tubesandhorns  United States
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Default BMS 4592 vs Radian Beryllium

I am thinking of upgrading the mids on my 3-way horn system to a Volti FC260 tractrix, but am undecided on the driver. Many phenomenal systems have been built using the BMS 4592ND-MID (around $650 each), so that is a top contender. Much of what I read, and a little of what I have physically auditioned, however swears by Beryllium... which seem significantly absent from posts. Admittedly that was with Classic Audio Systems that had not only Beryllium but also field coil drivers Beryllium plus field coil is out of my price range - and it's impossible to separate variables. Looking at new Beryllium, Radian drivers look amazing... except for the prices: 760NEOBePB at $850 each, or the 950BePB at $1100. True, that is a big increase, but in the long run... in for a penny in for a pound. Three years from now I will have forgotten about the extra money. So... anyone out there have insights or experience on this? I am probably willing to spend the dough, but would rather not unless truly a significant step up. I tri-amp so efficiency is not an issue, and I am satisfied with all other specs.
Thanks.
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Old 7th March 2016, 10:06 PM   #2
weltersys is offline weltersys  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubesandhorns View Post
I am thinking of upgrading the mids on my 3-way horn system to a Volti FC260 tractrix, but am undecided on the driver. Many phenomenal systems have been built using the BMS 4592ND-MID (around $650 each), so that is a top contender. Much of what I read, and a little of what I have physically auditioned, however swears by Beryllium...
Beryllium diaphragms push the high frequency resonance peak and breakup higher than aluminum, titanium, or plastic, allowing large diaphragm (3"-4") high frequency response to sound "cleaner".

The BMS 4592ND-MID is designed for midrange, (300-7kHz) using a Polyester diaphragm, which can go lower with less distortion than metal diaphragms designed to go all the way up to 16-20kHz.

The BMS 4592ND is a co-axial mid/hi driver using two separate Polyester annular ring diaphragms, the HF diaphragm is small and light enough that the HF peak (around 19kHz) is as high as a larger Beryllium diaphragm.

If you plan to use a separate tweeter above the FC260, the expense of Beryllium is probably unwarranted, as the primary advantages are in performance above 10kHz.

If you want to cross below around 600 Hz, the BMS drivers may be preferable, especially if you like to listen to big band or orchestral music at "live" levels.

Art
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Old 8th March 2016, 12:26 AM   #3
Clashing is offline Clashing  United States
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To be honest I don't necessarily agree with you on that point...
In my experience Be tends to yield more resolution and a greater sense of ease and air in the high frequency. While I understand that that statement is entirely subjective (although there was a white paper somewhere comparing Be, PG, Boron and a Boron Ti composite, can't find it now of course, but anyway), I really do think it would be worth it to order both from USspeakers. The owner is a fair and honest guy who I'm sure if you were to give him a call would at least be willing to try and help you out. Ultimately, if you do go the Radian route, make sure you get a Materion Truextent Be diaphragm as they are so much better than aluminum and even the Radian's own Be diaphragm.

I think they make a 4 inch drop in replacement diaphragm for the Radian 950PB... I've seen them before for about 600$ on some website. At 600 each, they represent the price difference between the same compression driver, but just outfitted with aluminum compared to stock Radian Be diaphragm.

Hope this helps,
Clashing
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Old 8th March 2016, 11:10 PM   #4
POOH is offline POOH  United States
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The community M200A should sound better than either in the midrange and are 300.00 US each.
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Old 8th March 2016, 11:20 PM   #5
tubesandhorns is offline tubesandhorns  United States
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Pooh, I didn't expect that response
Can you elaborate a little? The Radian Be and the BMS are so highly regarded...
Thanks
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Old 8th March 2016, 11:41 PM   #6
POOH is offline POOH  United States
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You don't mention what you are upgrading from?

Well I've had the BMS and thought it was "bleached out" and resonant sounding, and not in a good way. I have had Radian drivers but not the Be models but have TAD 4001, 4002 and much preferred them over the BMS. The TAD's have much higher resolution and deep tone that can be very convincing. The Community M200 has the tone of the TAD but in a more natural way where the driver doesn't draw attention to itself and shout out "listen to me I am TAD" - as far as resolution goes the TAD probably has a slight edge over M200 but only where the 4002 is used without the throat adapter and in a 1.5" short horn.

The community is really only good to 3-4k so keep that in mind.

Last edited by POOH; 8th March 2016 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 9th March 2016, 06:06 AM   #7
kodomo is offline kodomo  Turkey
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Well I have live with fc260 and bms 4592nd-mid for 3 years. It is a very good combination, if you use volti's crossover too. It is a very good combination. Only the tweeter placement is problematic with volti. I suggest putting the tweeter on top and in alignment with the bms. I used a fostex t500amkII with it, with volti crossover and it was sounding very very good.

I also have Radian be and Radian standart drivers. i do not have enough experience them on yet to say much and I use Radians half an octave narrower than I used bms. Radian sounds relaxed and detailed.

It is very much in the implementation and not only in the driver, do not forget that. Even small changes can change the character of the sound.
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Old 10th March 2016, 06:16 PM   #8
DSRadian is offline DSRadian  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clashing View Post
To be honest I don't necessarily agree with you on that point...
Hey All, I am Dennis with Radian Audio. Got a call about this thread, so I thought I would come in and clear some stuff up. All our products use Materion Truextent BE domes with our composite(a propitiatory blend) mounting rings. We have been working with Materion from the start. Their 950 BE diaphragm was the first product they came out with in beryllium. All our 950 series use their diaphragms to this day.

When it comes to pricing that is out of my hands. I can tell you this. BE is a pain to work with, from mining the ore to processing of the raw material into a usable product it is time consuming and labor intensive. Also, to add it is not a forgiving material.

I hope this clears some things up. You can always contact us if you have any questions.
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Old 10th March 2016, 07:41 PM   #9
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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It could be both are true.

From looking at a lot of measurements, the breakup modes tend to be higher in Be drivers, but also, the waterfall plots much cleaner. However, from what I've seen in domes, the break up/resonance of Be domes is not much different than aluminum or other metal dome's. I have not looked at a lot of compression drivers however.

Where I tend to dislike the Be domes drivers is in tonal accuracy. I've not yet seen one as flat as the best ribbon or AMT drivers. However, subjectively I'm also less sensitive to this than I am sensitive to stored energy/ringing so I'd take a good Be dome over most good dome's. I'd take a good ribbon or AMT over those.

Thanks a lot for the recommendation on the Be diaphragm! I keep thinking about making a coaxial 2-way with the Radian. Having a better Be replacement is a good thing.

Best,
Erik

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To be honest I don't necessarily agree with you on that point...
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Last edited by eriksquires; 10th March 2016 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 14th April 2018, 07:14 AM   #10
SpinMonster is offline SpinMonster  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSRadian View Post
Hey All, I am Dennis with Radian Audio. <snip>
I know this is an old thread but after I bought Radian 475 Beryllium compression drivers from us speaker, I tried 5 times with e-mail for support and never got any response to my requests to know the exit angle of the driver and to see response graphs. Nothing was supplied with the drivers themselves as far as this basic and very needed information.
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