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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

HLCM - Horn loaded compact monitor
HLCM - Horn loaded compact monitor
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Old 28th February 2016, 03:19 PM   #1
POOH is offline POOH  United States
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Default HLCM - Horn loaded compact monitor

In pursuit of pure playback realism and a system that has low compromise in in-the-room tone and presence I will document my mistakes here in this thread. The goal of the horn array is to have no hesitation in believe ability when listening to a good recording. I find from the upper bass up must be front horn loaded, otherwise it just sounds like a speaker trying to be real paddling away at the room air sounding fake. Horns move the air needed for the human to be fooled into experiencing realism. The system is made to fire down the long walls of my rectangular concrete bunker and sits on carpeted concrete slab. The system is made to work with the room.

Here is the in room response of the low midrange and upper bass (heart of the system), one channel 15' away at the listening position. Here is where most of the music lives and this compact horn system is built around this range first. This range consists of two parts, one the B&C 8pe21 in a 46" long front horn with an 8 square foot mouth and 4" throat 120 - 1K range @ 106 db/w/m sensitivity. Two, the horizontal floor coupled line array stands for the midrange horn with four sealed 8" woofers wired in parallel with 103 db w/m voltage sensitivity. These two parts are biamped and the upper bass coupling stands operate 60 to 120 cycles and can be precisely aligned with the 8pe21. If you get this range right you will have a basis for a system with realistic in room sound. The bass modules are high passed 4th order at 60 cycles and operate in stereo. The midrange horns can operate up to 800 cycles realistically.

hornbassmodule.jpg
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Old 28th February 2016, 04:21 PM   #2
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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HLCM - Horn loaded compact monitor
Can we see photos? How compact is your compact monitor with an 8 square foot mouth?
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Old 28th February 2016, 11:03 PM   #3
POOH is offline POOH  United States
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I'll take some pictures soon, it's really compact for front horn system down to 100 Hz. I've managed to reduce the weight of the bass horns to under 100 lbs each. No not direct radiator monitor size but those tend to sound fake and compressed. The midbass horns are fiberglass and I damped them with 4" of compressed memory foam. That stuff gets pretty heavy and really knocked down the noise.

Last edited by POOH; 28th February 2016 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 29th February 2016, 08:15 PM   #4
ICG is offline ICG  Germany
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What kind of room do you have? What will be used in the high range?

That kind of setup needs a quite long listening distance to generate a homogenous sound, I assume you'll need a listening distance of at least 4-5m.
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Old 29th February 2016, 09:34 PM   #5
pcgab is offline pcgab  United States
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HLCM - Horn loaded compact monitor
Subscribed, I'm quite interested to see how this progresses!
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Old 4th March 2016, 02:28 AM   #6
CLS is offline CLS  Taiwan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POOH View Post
....

I find from the upper bass up must be front horn loaded, otherwise it just sounds like a speaker trying to be real paddling away at the room air sounding fake. Horns move the air needed for the human to be fooled into experiencing realism. ....
Hi POOH,

Good work! As always.

Regarding the midbass range, I remember you once mentioned that the best midbass punch you got was from a pair of Karlson Klam. (that's a very special thing to me at that time, so it's a deeply pressed impression)

So, as time goes by, you came 'back' to horn anyway. Mind to compare them?
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Old 4th March 2016, 02:48 AM   #7
POOH is offline POOH  United States
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Originally Posted by CLS View Post
Hi POOH,

Good work! As always.

Regarding the midbass range, I remember you once mentioned that the best midbass punch you got was from a pair of Karlson Klam. (that's a very special thing to me at that time, so it's a deeply pressed impression)

So, as time goes by, you came 'back' to horn anyway. Mind to compare them?
The Klam in it's range and for it's size is still the slam master of all I've had. Good down to 50-60 cycles and punch that's really close to what I have now. For the size and up to around 200 they will always have a place in my heart. LOL- I actually had one "Rosie" cabinet loaded with an Altec 15 in the room a couple of weeks ago trying to figure out how I could fit them in the room to run below the big mid horns. They are just too big... but I'm working on it
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Old 4th March 2016, 03:02 AM   #8
POOH is offline POOH  United States
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Originally Posted by ICG View Post
What kind of room do you have? What will be used in the high range?

That kind of setup needs a quite long listening distance to generate a homogenous sound, I assume you'll need a listening distance of at least 4-5m.
Hello, I have a concrete bunker around 14.5' wide by 24 deep its on a slab with concrete block walls (an addition below a room built for my wife)

High range is still debatable but most likely settling on the Community M200 for the upper midrange low treble and the celestion CDX1730 for the upper treble. The bass right now is five JBL 2242H 18's (one in mono horn loaded) and a rear dual 18 with two Dayton 18" sub drivers . What I am working on is some additional bass couplers (they are done and in the system) that also work as stands for the throat/compression chamber of the upper bass/mid horn. The stands have four 8" drivers in a horizontal line sealed coupled to the floor. I'm not 100 percent sold on it yet - the JBL 18's do pretty good on their own. But I want to move the array closer to me (currently 15 feet) so I was thinking I'd want the bass closer to horns - really what I need to do is move the big stereo 18 cabinets closer a nd sacrifice a littl on the bottom octave (I have lots to spare) - The cabinets weigh around 300 pounds a piece so i am waiting for my son to have some time to help move them around.
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Old 4th March 2016, 03:54 AM   #9
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Ummm... which part is the "compact" part??
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Old 4th March 2016, 04:08 AM   #10
ICG is offline ICG  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POOH View Post
Hello, I have a concrete bunker around 14.5' wide by 24 deep its on a slab with concrete block walls (an addition below a room built for my wife)
Does that concrete bunker type room has anything to do with being below her room and ..uhm.. her weight? j/k

The room should be big enough for a homogene sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by POOH View Post
High range is still debatable but most likely settling on the Community M200 for the upper midrange low treble and the celestion CDX1730 for the upper treble.
The CDX 1730 are a good choice, I find the CDX1-1430 a bit more detailed at the high end though. I guess that's the different diaphragm material and lighter mass. The 1730 is still a good choice, they sound great too.
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