The CV looks basically like a w horn Freddi - they need braced and work well firing into a corner with an extension or down firing butted up against a wall. A friend has my old horns and uses them in a room about three times the size of mine. In there they really work well for him.
What do you think of something like a short Klam loaded with three JBL 12" 2204's? - What I want is a cabinet less than 14" tall, it can be 40" wide and maybe 30 deep. Do you know of any Klams built where the woofers are side by side versus up and down? I'm looking for compact, short low compromise bass --- minus 6db points 50 and 150 Hz.
Last edited:
that klam sounds doable (you could make 3 little ones) - my pc with most K pix and stuff just died - here's a blurry thumbnail of Wayne's klam 20+ years ago with a 10" and passive radiator which augmented 8- 10" Scanspeak woofers in aperiodic boxes - from the description, I think the PR was firing up into a slot chamber.
Last edited:
Interesting comparison of Celestion CDX1730 in cheap SEOS 12 horn and the Dayton horn loaded planer. This is measured pink noise at 5 meters in room. The treble drivers are in the horn array and driven with the same voltage. Reflections and all - lol no high pass no eq, 1/48th octave smoothing
Celestion CDX1730 in SEOS12 horn
Dayton PHT1-6 Horn loaded planar
Celestion CDX1730 in SEOS12 horn
Dayton PHT1-6 Horn loaded planar
Last edited:
This is the difference between controlled directivity sound crowd sound and practical in room listening purity.
That looks really good. Must be nice to have a big collection of drivers and horns to play with!
Just out of curiosity what's the longest you've ever left a system in place without changing drivers/horns? I would be changing things out often just for fun if I could, but what setup would you keep if you had to settle on just one? Maybe a better question would be what drivers would you have a very hard time parting with. Thanks and keep up the good work!
Just out of curiosity what's the longest you've ever left a system in place without changing drivers/horns? I would be changing things out often just for fun if I could, but what setup would you keep if you had to settle on just one? Maybe a better question would be what drivers would you have a very hard time parting with. Thanks and keep up the good work!
The system in my moniker was good for almost 2 years - lol - what happened was I thought I could downsize and got stuck trying to get a 12" Tannoy DC to perform as well in my room as the horns. It set me back almost a year - now this system will be much like the system in my moniker except a long upper bass mid horn with an 8" instead of the short 15" midbass horn.
I horde drivers, it's probably a disease of some sort. lol, I really don't know all what I have - I spent a whole day reboxing and organizing most of them a couple weeks ago. Now I have sort of an inventory of what's here. For example I found 5 pairs of different 15" coaxials that I probably will never use - My wife says have a sellathon and that's what i really need to be doing. My disease keeps telling me otherwise though..
I horde drivers, it's probably a disease of some sort. lol, I really don't know all what I have - I spent a whole day reboxing and organizing most of them a couple weeks ago. Now I have sort of an inventory of what's here. For example I found 5 pairs of different 15" coaxials that I probably will never use - My wife says have a sellathon and that's what i really need to be doing. My disease keeps telling me otherwise though..
Three horn array with B&C 8pe21 to 600 hz, EV DH1 with aluminum diaphram to 6K and Celestion CDX1425 6K up - 12 feet away in room 1/24 octave smoothing - this sounds super nicemaybe a tad hot on top - until the bass is on than it's "airy" and BIG
View attachment 537103
How does look under angles?
Hi POOH,
If you please :
What did you liked more with your horned B&C 8PE21 : 600 Xo or 1000 XO ? Have you more spl when crossed at 600 Hz Any roll off of the B&C 8" below 300 Hz ? The horn is fixing the natural 300 Hz roll off ?
What is the max spl transcient output the combo 8PE21 driver+horn can output here with its 1 mm Xmax (the xmax of the B&C8PE21 is not clear to me, on some datasheet they say 1 mm with Xvarr at 4 mm on some others 1 mm Xmax?! Seing the Xvardamage it seems to me we are nearer to 1 mm Xmax, no ?) ? Can approach 120 dB peak in the low 100 Hz ?
So 8' Square meter equals 244 x 244 cm ? How is the polar map to chose the upper horn shape and profile ? Floor is adding +3 dB at the mouth exit ?
Not appealed for bass array below or Kilpsh horn bass ?
regards,
Eldam
If you please :
What did you liked more with your horned B&C 8PE21 : 600 Xo or 1000 XO ? Have you more spl when crossed at 600 Hz Any roll off of the B&C 8" below 300 Hz ? The horn is fixing the natural 300 Hz roll off ?
What is the max spl transcient output the combo 8PE21 driver+horn can output here with its 1 mm Xmax (the xmax of the B&C8PE21 is not clear to me, on some datasheet they say 1 mm with Xvarr at 4 mm on some others 1 mm Xmax?! Seing the Xvardamage it seems to me we are nearer to 1 mm Xmax, no ?) ? Can approach 120 dB peak in the low 100 Hz ?
So 8' Square meter equals 244 x 244 cm ? How is the polar map to chose the upper horn shape and profile ? Floor is adding +3 dB at the mouth exit ?
Not appealed for bass array below or Kilpsh horn bass ?
regards,
Eldam
Last edited:
I adjusted the throat of the low mid upper bass horn and am retuning the back chamber. The horns has been elevated 6" and is angled more at listening window. The horns are coupled to side wall and am listening to it full range right now. No treble or upper treble horns being used. I am tuning for best attack and tone. It sounds very nice on it's own and is covering a wide enough range where I find it is morphing into what i seek. When this is where I want it i will bring in the harmonics. It looks like 800-900 cycles first order low pass might be the sweet spot with this. The upper bass is coming in 6db down at 80 cycles to where it is flat 120 to 1K. I am listening with no high pass, just the 8PE21 - the "bass" is really perfect within it's range and it is quite enjoyable. Really "bouncy" and deep dense rich tone of instruments. I don't worry about Xmax because this is tuning out to 108-109 db in room with a watt and the back chamber and throat reluctance keeps it pure and in line. With the high pass at 120 cycles third order a pair will have no problem at 120 db.
Thanks POOH
Yes this certainly more here in the first harmonic on some few exceptional reccordings we need some headroom for transcient if the DAC allows it as well, not sure there is more than 120 dB peaks upon 1 000 Hz in a non amplified classical concert !
You may need it below 100 Hz (to around 250 Hz) but here also the room dictates the whole behavior I assume !
(certainly for the worst if concert hall level on transcient peaks... with the rare reccording allowing such peaks level... Don't know if even one hifi which hit th e 130 dB spl on peaks is existing for 100 Hz ?! Which is most of the time the maximum pressure of a grand orchestra in this range ! iirc I mean !)
Your mid-bass horn is circular or with straight angles like VolvoTreter or InlowSound ?
For my simple point of view horns is good for this dynamic behavior (transcients), not because some want tubes.BTW at 100 Hz /120 dB spl peaks at 105 dB/w/m, one should needs more than a couple of watts : 3 numbers watts instead (so strong SS or class D!) !
I just ask myself the day I will have the dedicated room if a square throat and mouth should suffice. Whatever I will putt above !
cheers
Yes this certainly more here in the first harmonic on some few exceptional reccordings we need some headroom for transcient if the DAC allows it as well, not sure there is more than 120 dB peaks upon 1 000 Hz in a non amplified classical concert !
You may need it below 100 Hz (to around 250 Hz) but here also the room dictates the whole behavior I assume !
(certainly for the worst if concert hall level on transcient peaks... with the rare reccording allowing such peaks level... Don't know if even one hifi which hit th e 130 dB spl on peaks is existing for 100 Hz ?! Which is most of the time the maximum pressure of a grand orchestra in this range ! iirc I mean !)
Your mid-bass horn is circular or with straight angles like VolvoTreter or InlowSound ?
For my simple point of view horns is good for this dynamic behavior (transcients), not because some want tubes.BTW at 100 Hz /120 dB spl peaks at 105 dB/w/m, one should needs more than a couple of watts : 3 numbers watts instead (so strong SS or class D!) !
I just ask myself the day I will have the dedicated room if a square throat and mouth should suffice. Whatever I will putt above !
cheers
I read an article where different music was look at for peaks in levels across the whole range - with classical the majority of peaks were centered around 300 Hz. For sistained high levels though you are right the power range between 60 and 120 Hz is where the meat is. My bass below 120 Hz has no problem at 120 db all the way down below 20 hz. The horn is rectangular and only 26" tall (46"wide, 43" deep plus back chamber) do raising it off the ground 6" doesn't hurt the size of the array too much. I like the low treble horn high at the top and the upper treble horn in between centered.
I just won in an auction a pair of new old stock Fane Studio 8M to compare with the B&C 8PE21 - I will get to see if they are as great as some claim. It will be very difficult to beat the B&C. I had an old pair a few years ago (well broken in lol) and used in tractrix horns and didn't care too much for them. With this much longer/larger Hypex I think they will be more at home.
B&C 8PE21 compared to Fand Studio 8m one meter in horn
Here is red B&C and blue Fane. 1 meter from horn mouth no back chamber used 1/48 resolution. The Fane is brand new (1992 NOS) so it might need to loosen up
The B&C 8PE21
In listening to a pair of the fane the measurements don't tell the whole story, there is something here that may or may not be "hifi" but it sure sounds real and alive - lol - need some back chambers and throat tuning to nail it down
Here is red B&C and blue Fane. 1 meter from horn mouth no back chamber used 1/48 resolution. The Fane is brand new (1992 NOS) so it might need to loosen up
The B&C 8PE21
In listening to a pair of the fane the measurements don't tell the whole story, there is something here that may or may not be "hifi" but it sure sounds real and alive - lol - need some back chambers and throat tuning to nail it down
Last edited:
