3-Way Build Project - Woofer help

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I would double check your sim for the Vifa NE180-4 because I don't get a lower F3 than with the Peerless. The NE180-8 however is comparable. My thoughts though are that if you are willing to pay for 2 of the NE's, you might as well take another step up in quality, albeit a small one, and go for just 1 of the ScanSpeak 18W Revelators or the Satori 16P-8.

Quality wise I would start at the Peerless, then the Vifa and then go up a little to the Satori and the Scan (just flip a coin I think between these 2). For bass and cabinet sizes, I've attached a comparison chart using Unibox. SPL levels are the limits @ 1m without exceeding xmax for content above 30Hz. The diagram looks a little blurry so,

Blue = Peerless 21L
Violet = Vifa Ne180-4 10L
Black = Vifa NE180-8 25L
Green = Scan 18W8531G 25L
Red = Satori 16P-8 25L

Just so you know, you don't have to match the impedance of drivers (4ohm with 8ohm is fine as long as SPL levels are compatible when you include baffle step loss and +6dB gain with 2 parallel drivers if applicable) and both parallel and series connections are valid.

Re ribbons: some people really like them. Some people not so much. If you use them, you have to implement them correctly which most importantly means crossing them high enough which means choosing a smaller mid. I plan to try one soon although I haven't yet at this point. My personal thoughts are that although the harmonic distortion may be a little higher at the lower frequencies, ribbons have extremely low diaphragm resonances which makes them sound 'fast' and clean. Really important at the higher frequencies I think.

Go with a dome if you feel so inclined but here are a couple of successful designs that use the Founteks:
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/speedster
Speaker Design Works
There are also some newish planars that are getting good reviews, the Airborne RT-5002 as just 1 example which maybe could work out for you given how crappy our Canadian dollar is right now, but there are others as well.

The Discovery 15W has a very good reputation, but with a ribbon one of the 10F or the 12W would be a better choice. I should have mentioned the Vifa NE123 before as well.


I really like the look of the Satori MW16P8! Great F3 and a really smooth response. I'm getting 96dB at 3M with these which is a little lower than the NE180W-08 but I "think" I will naturally get a bit more gain due to speaker placement (close to the wall corners) and I "guess" due to there being 2 speakers too :) Anyway, i've also just measured what dB I typically listen to music at in my living room. Turns out that's 60-65dB's, possibly a little high for movies but not by much. So i'm very comfortable with 96dB at 3M! Plenty of head room :)

Mid's I really like the Audax HM100Z0 driver. If there's a high cross over point for the tweeter the Audax looks good up 5k. If the cross over is lower the Audax HM130Z0 seems a little smoother.

I do like the very high frequency range of the ribbon drivers. That's kind of what spurred me on to cab upgrade. The Fountek NeoCD1.0 gets a good report on the links you provided. The NeoCD3.0 also looks appealing because off axis is better than the NeoCD1.0. There again the Fountek NeoX3.0 look amazing compared to the other two. I've had a good look around for hybrid tweeters (ribbon and dome) and they seem to be OEM only. I like the idea of the hybrid, best of both worlds in my mind :)

So i'm settled on the Satori MW16P8 :)

Any thoughts on the mid's and tweeters above? I think i'm (we're close) to a driver selection now :)
 
I think the Satori + Audax HM100Z + one of the Founteks CD's would sound fantastic. I did however just notice that Falcon Acoustic only has 1 of the Audax available at the moment. I think my 2nd choice would be the Scan 10F8424G. And I'd probably say choose whichever Fountek fits your budget best.

Next you need to start doing some simulations. Jeff Bagby's suite of free modeling tools are hard to beat but you need Excel: Jeff Bagby's Software Page

You'll need to create FR and impedance files: New automatic graph tracing program

The Speaker Building Bible has good info stating down in the xo section.

XSim is turning out to be popular for xo's although for normal projects I prefer Jeff's PCD or WinPCD.

I would model baffle diffraction next to figure out your best bets for the tweeter and mid placement on your front baffle.
 
I think the Satori + Audax HM100Z + one of the Founteks CD's would sound fantastic. I did however just notice that Falcon Acoustic only has 1 of the Audax available at the moment. I think my 2nd choice would be the Scan 10F8424G. And I'd probably say choose whichever Fountek fits your budget best.

Next you need to start doing some simulations. Jeff Bagby's suite of free modeling tools are hard to beat but you need Excel: Jeff Bagby's Software Page

You'll need to create FR and impedance files: New automatic graph tracing program

The Speaker Building Bible has good info stating down in the xo section.

XSim is turning out to be popular for xo's although for normal projects I prefer Jeff's PCD or WinPCD.

I would model baffle diffraction next to figure out your best bets for the tweeter and mid placement on your front baffle.

Struggling with the crossover. The parts-express.com crossover links are down so I've been trying to figure it out myself. Its easy enough to import the data and setup distances but knowing what capacitors to use is a tall order. I've tried an educated guess but I don't know what the end result should really look like on the graphs. Spoke to Falcon Acoustics about the Audax drivers and apparently Audax have issues with the Aerogel cones at the moment and will not be available for the foreseeable. That's an easy one to solve, as you've listed some other great mid ranges drivers :)

Any suggestions for a good crossover resource?
 
Yes, the PE forum was down for a bit but it's back up now.

If this is the 1st time that you are going through this simulation process, I highly recommend that you do it with some help or at least guidance. For eg, there are a number of necessary steps involved to create your FR and Z files before you even enter them into a xo program. If the files aren't right, then there is no way your xo can be either.
 
Yes, the PE forum was down for a bit but it's back up now.

If this is the 1st time that you are going through this simulation process, I highly recommend that you do it with some help or at least guidance. For eg, there are a number of necessary steps involved to create your FR and Z files before you even enter them into a xo program. If the files aren't right, then there is no way your xo can be either.

Looks like the links are still down.
http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Articles/phat/hpif.htm

Ok, i'm a little out of sync with the process. I've created the FR and Z files.. I was quite proud of myself, that I'd got them into the XO programs.. Looks like i'll have to go back again :)
 
Try this: The Speaker Building Bible - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum and start in on "Speaker Designing with Software" section.

If you are going with a ribbon tweeter, you will get more accurate diffraction sims with:
Baffle Diffraction Simulator - although the learning curve is a little steep on this one; or
The Edge - although this one doesn't export frd files so you have to trace it and you have to alter the graph's SPL scale in the process. Ask if you go this route.

You need to build the woofer and mid FR and Z files by adding in the box response and the diffraction response. With the tweeter, you only have to add in the diffraction response. Then extract minimum phase from all files and then enter them into the xo program.

The 1st place I would start after tracing the raw FR and Z files, and I would use a 3rd party's measurements if they are available (see Zaph|Audio, including his Blog) is to find the position on the baffle which produces the least diffraction ripple for your tweeter. The mid should then be as close to it as possible and then the woofer is more flexible in terms of placement.

I've recently been helping someone else out with this process:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/287218-xsim-crossover-critique.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/287218-xsim-crossover-critique.htmlwww.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/287340-xsim-critique-part-2-a.html
You should probably find some of the info helpful.
 
Ok, so i'm going to take a slightly different tack on this project and split into two phases.

Phase 1. Driver Selection, Cab adjustments, Stock Crossover and L-Pads
Phase 2. Bespoke crossover and fine tuning - at some point in the future

My rational for this is; i'm currently struggling with the bespoke crossover side of things and i'd like to see where I get with my current understanding of speaker design.. Also i'm a little impatient to upgrade my cabs :)

I've narrowed the drivers and crossover down to the following.

Tweeter = SATORI TW29RN-B
MID = SB12MNRX25-4
Woofer = SATORI MW16P-4
Crossover = Dayton XO3W-375/3K 3-Way

Note that there's no ribbon tweeter in phase 1. That's mainly because the other drivers are 4-ohm and the stock crossover wouldn't be up to the job (i think). I plan to "tune" the levels by ear using the L-Pads, which I hope will give a good result. Box dimensions etc should be pretty much spot on based on my understanding of how to calculate this.

I know this is probably a little unconventional :) However would really appreciate any thoughts on the driver selection and the crossover? :)
 
Spark010,
IMHO, you are cooking with gas by working with jReave. If you remain patient through the design/ simulation process; in probably less then a week or two that side of things will be complete. Then its on to the actual build. I'm actual at that point currently. There is probably not a bigger beginner on this site then myself and I have somehow managed to navigate through the programs that jReave suggested.:) Its your call of course to go with generic crossovers, but my advise would be go the custom designed route and achieve the best SQ possible the first time around. Just my 2 cents.:)


Best Regards,
Rich
 
The only issue here is that the SB midrange you're using is nowhere near as clean/linear as the Satori driver you've chosen as your bass driver, even throughout the midrange.

The Satori has one of the best motors in the world for midrange distortion whereas the standard SB driver is merely average. It's not even a good performer by SB standards as SB, for some reason, chose not to include copper rings in the motor and thus it has much poorer performance than say the SB15 series of drivers.

The main issue here is that you're using a very capable tweeter that has no problems in crossing over low enough to the Satori to make the SB12 pretty pointless and to be honest with it in the system linearity will be lower. But of course you'd be losing out on the three way advantages.

A better idea would be to use the MW13P as your mid driver or something like the Eton 3-400/A8/25 MG. Both of these would be a far better choice if somewhat more expensive.

This then brings up the choice of the Satori as a bass driver. The MW16P was specifically designed to excel at midrange performance. This isn't to say its bass performance is lacking but there are better options here. Drivers with more linear excursion (Klippel testing has found the Satori to be lacking vs what it's spec says), giving greater output potential and lower bass distortion.

To me the point of going three way is to exploit the fact that now the midrange and bass are coming from two separate drivers and to pick the drivers based off of the job that they are going to perform. This means picking a very clean midange driver that is usually smaller in diameter and one that is certainly as clean as a good mid bass. Then to pick a bass driver that might not have the cleanest midrange or smoothest response up high, but one that works very well down low.

You can see measurements for the Eton driver here

??-????????

Where you can see that it is very clean from about 300Hz up to 4kHz.

Vs

The SB driver here

http://zaphaudio.com/temp/SBAcoustics-SB12MNRX25-4-HD.gif

Notice the rising third and fifth order harmonics.

From a bass perspective the RS180 is cleaner than the Satori and significantly less expensive. A SEAS Excel W18E/EX would be a good choice too as would an Usher 8945A. You can see measurements for all of these on Zaph's website and blog.

I know this throws your design on its head a little but using the TW29RN + MW13P would give you all the goodness from the SB Satori line and also use it where it shines (I've tested the MW13P and it's every bit as good as its bigger brother). If you need the extra voltage sensitivity of a 4 ohm driver then the RS180-4 would be the logical choice otherwise the 8945A could be considered too. Both of those bass units offer more capabilities down low than the MW16 which is what you should be aiming for in my opinion.
 
quote>>>I've narrowed the drivers and crossover down to the following.

Tweeter = SATORI TW29RN-B
MID = SB12MNRX25-4
Woofer = SATORI MW16P-4
Crossover = Dayton XO3W-375/3K 3-Way<<<

You are underusing MW16P - it is quite sufficient to use it with the TW29RN, doesn't need a midrange.
Google "Kairos and Continuum three ways" by Jeff Bagby ......
Also forget off the shelf crossover.
 
Spark010,

So I was going to do a quick sim of your selected drivers and show you what they will look like with that prefab xo, but there isn't any point because one, that woofer won't meet your design criteria and two, the xo simply won't work out with that mid. First the 4ohm Satori will not give you the same low F3 response that the 8ohm will. And second, although that xo will accommodate the 4ohm Satori, it's meant to work with an 8ohm mid and tweeter, so your mid choice doesn't qualify. It's also 4ohm.

So I'm just going to say, stay away from those xo's. Worst comes to worst, I'll design something for you that is based on your specific driver FR and impedance responses and your specific cabinet diffraction signature and although it may not be perfect (though it could be as well), it will be far and above a better solution than some simple textbook values.

Re-read 5th element's post as he hit upon most of what I was going to say in response to your last post. However, I was limiting my driver selection to Falcon, so I didn't think of the Ushers or the Etons and I'm not sure that the Ushers will fit your cabinet anyways. I also disagree with his RS180 choice for you as it also doesn't reach as low as the other woofers you have been looking at. At least according to Unibox. The woofer that I really want to recommend for you for movies without a sub is the Anarchy, but I'm not sure if it's worth it to ship internationally.

Before you go any further with driver selection, I think you need to re-think your approach. If you want to stick with your Phase 1 and 2 from above, then at least let me or someone else design the xo for you. Personally this isn't the approach I would take. I would either choose some less expensive but still good quality drivers to start off with or I would simply do it right the 1st time.

But it looks to me like you have been trying to learn everything on your own and that can be a very steep and frustrating mountain to climb alone, especially if impatience is kicking your a$$ at the same time. I can help you with the learning curve if you want, but that's up to you.

Also as another option, and because you seem inclined to go with rather expensive and excellent drivers, if you want to skip learning the simulation process (for now), myself and probably others here can teach you how to take some relatively simple measurements of your drivers in cabinet with something like REW, and then I can design a very accurate xo for you from that data. And that is really the best way to design a xo properly. Choose the drivers you really want in this scenario too.
 
Spark010,
IMHO, you are cooking with gas by working with jReave. If you remain patient through the design/ simulation process; in probably less then a week or two that side of things will be complete. Then its on to the actual build. I'm actual at that point currently. There is probably not a bigger beginner on this site then myself and I have somehow managed to navigate through the programs that jReave suggested.:) Its your call of course to go with generic crossovers, but my advise would be go the custom designed route and achieve the best SQ possible the first time around. Just my 2 cents.:)
Best Regards,
Rich
Thanks for the encouragement Rich. I'll stick at for a little longer! :)

I know this throws your design on its head a little but using the TW29RN + MW13P would give you all the goodness from the SB Satori line and also use it where it shines (I've tested the MW13P and it's every bit as good as its bigger brother). If you need the extra voltage sensitivity of a 4 ohm driver then the RS180-4 would be the logical choice otherwise the 8945A could be considered too. Both of those bass units offer more capabilities down low than the MW16 which is what you should be aiming for in my opinion.
Yes totally on its head but that's ok. The more information the better and thanks for the recommendations. I just need time to process it now :)

Spark010,
So I was going to do a quick sim of your selected drivers and show you what they will look like with that prefab xo, but there isn't any point because one, that woofer won't meet your design criteria and two, the xo simply won't work out with that mid. First the 4ohm Satori will not give you the same low F3 response that the 8ohm will. And second, although that xo will accommodate the 4ohm Satori, it's meant to work with an 8ohm mid and tweeter, so your mid choice doesn't qualify. It's also 4ohm.
So I'm just going to say, stay away from those xo's. Worst comes to worst, I'll design something for you that is based on your specific driver FR and impedance responses and your specific cabinet diffraction signature and although it may not be perfect (though it could be as well), it will be far and above a better solution than some simple textbook values.
Re-read 5th element's post as he hit upon most of what I was going to say in response to your last post. However, I was limiting my driver selection to Falcon, so I didn't think of the Ushers or the Etons and I'm not sure that the Ushers will fit your cabinet anyways. I also disagree with his RS180 choice for you as it also doesn't reach as low as the other woofers you have been looking at. At least according to Unibox. The woofer that I really want to recommend for you for movies without a sub is the Anarchy, but I'm not sure if it's worth it to ship internationally.
Before you go any further with driver selection, I think you need to re-think your approach. If you want to stick with your Phase 1 and 2 from above, then at least let me or someone else design the xo for you. Personally this isn't the approach I would take. I would either choose some less expensive but still good quality drivers to start off with or I would simply do it right the 1st time.
But it looks to me like you have been trying to learn everything on your own and that can be a very steep and frustrating mountain to climb alone, especially if impatience is kicking your a$$ at the same time. I can help you with the learning curve if you want, but that's up to you.
Also as another option, and because you seem inclined to go with rather expensive and excellent drivers, if you want to skip learning the simulation process (for now), myself and probably others here can teach you how to take some relatively simple measurements of your drivers in cabinet with something like REW, and then I can design a very accurate xo for you from that data. And that is really the best way to design a xo properly. Choose the drivers you really want in this scenario too.

Wow, thank you and that's very kind of you! I'm going to stick at it (doing it the proper way) a little longer and see where I get to and then reach out as a last resort, if that's ok?

Just a quick question around F3. We have touched on that before but I think i'm missing something fundamental.

The MW16P-4 vs the MW16P-8, looking at the graphs the 4-ohm has better sensitivity low down vs the 8-ohm. I'm guessing you are calculating F3 by some other method? I used WinISD for the box modeling can I compare F3 using that? There is no obvious F3 data being displayed.
 
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Sometimes it takes a couple of times reading things before they sink in, which is ok. Not everybody has a science background. I don't.

Pretty much all manufacturers' FR graphs are done on an infinite baffle, an open, large piece of wood without any kind of rear enclosure (Seas would be the primary exception). As such, neither the FR nor the sensitivity, not even the driver's Fs alone will tell you what the driver is going to do when you put it in a closed or vented box. It's the combination of the box and the driver's TS parameters that will determine the driver's F3, ie. the point at which the response drops 3dB down from its main, more or less level response, as well as F6 and F10 too which can sometimes be just as important to look at.

So, yes you do indeed have to model the box and driver together to know what the outcome is going to be. WinISD does that. So if you look again at the 2 Satori's infinite baffle FR's and compare them and then look below to see how they look in their "best" suggested vented alignments, you can see that the vented F3 of each driver doesn't correlate with either the original FR's, the driver sensitivity or the Fs of each driver (29Hz vs 30Hz).

As to continuing on your own, it's your project so if that's what you want to do, then hey, that's fine. But my opinion is that you'll do better, faster with some help. But just my 2 cents.

One key question for me is whether or not you have Excel because a lot of the simulation programs need it and although there are now some alternates that don't, I'm not sure how you can get through the whole process without Jeff Bagby's Response
Modeler
.
 

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Ah Falcon and spark is in the UK and in Manchester no less. That could make things easier.

I would forget about the Usher too then and certainly if the lowest f3 is of primary importance the RS might not be the best option.

Falcon do offer a back catalogue SEAS Excel driver

Seas W18EX-RA H1400-04 4 Ohm Woofer - Excel Series

That might be of interest for a bass application. I've not simmed it but it caught my eye a while back. A very nice price for a W18EX, it has a low qts so will absolutely need a ported box to give you any respectable bass. You've also got the various HDS drivers from Peerless to consider too as they could sim well for a decent f3.

My guess is that this


Scanspeak 18WU/8747T00 Woofer - Illuminator Range

Would be a good choice. It looks like it should sim for a low f3 and has a huge amount of xmax to boot. The only downside is the ridiculous price and possibly sensitivity. Where you choose to spend your money is up to you though.

You could save on the midrange and use the Vifa NE123. This also has excellent performance and will not let you down, it is actually very similar to the Satori MW13 in lots of ways. And with regards to the tweeter, the main benefits of the Satori ring dome is its ability to cross over low and with more shallow slopes. If you're using a small midrange driver then this is not at all necessary as you should easily be crossing north of 2kHz and preferably around 3kHz or so. This makes most of the point of the Satori tweeter fairly moot. Moot because you could easily go for the SB29RDNC-C000-4 instead. No it doesn't go as low but it is a lot less expensive and performs excellently when crossed over slightly higher. It also comes with the added benefit of being small. This will allow a much closer centre to centre distance between the midrange and tweeter and give much better vertical dispersion than that of a comparable tweeter with 104mm faceplate.

If the illuminator scan gives you the kind of bass performance you are after then it would definitely make sense to use it and to be a little bit more cost effective elsewhere.

Spark I am also in Manchester, where abouts are you located?
 
5th, just to let you know, spark was originally looking at a ribbon type tweeter. I made a couple of recommendations.

Man, if you guys are close to each other that would be great. :up:

Not that I am against ribbons but they generally require some very specific operating conditions to work at their best and often compromise other aspects of the design by doing so. You were right to make some recommendations imo.

I just simmed with the 18WU from scanspeak and it's not pretty in terms of f3. SB really did a number with the 6" Satori, no its bass distortion isn't the lowest but it does sim for a very nice f3 given a large enough cabinet!

The original 8 ohm RS180 has an f3 comparable but requires an even bigger cabinet. Of course Dayton changed the series about a year ago which in some cases was a good thing and in some not so much. A lot of drivers now sim better in smaller cabinets, which is generally a good thing, but at the expense of outright extension.
 
Sometimes it takes a couple of times reading things before they sink in, which is ok. Not everybody has a science background. I don't.

Pretty much all manufacturers' FR graphs are done on an infinite baffle, an open, large piece of wood without any kind of rear enclosure (Seas would be the primary exception). As such, neither the FR nor the sensitivity, not even the driver's Fs alone will tell you what the driver is going to do when you put it in a closed or vented box. It's the combination of the box and the driver's TS parameters that will determine the driver's F3, ie. the point at which the response drops 3dB down from its main, more or less level response, as well as F6 and F10 too which can sometimes be just as important to look at.

So, yes you do indeed have to model the box and driver together to know what the outcome is going to be. WinISD does that. So if you look again at the 2 Satori's infinite baffle FR's and compare them and then look below to see how they look in their "best" suggested vented alignments, you can see that the vented F3 of each driver doesn't correlate with either the original FR's, the driver sensitivity or the Fs of each driver (29Hz vs 30Hz).

As to continuing on your own, it's your project so if that's what you want to do, then hey, that's fine. But my opinion is that you'll do better, faster with some help. But just my 2 cents.

One key question for me is whether or not you have Excel because a lot of the simulation programs need it and although there are now some alternates that don't, I'm not sure how you can get through the whole process without Jeff Bagby's Response
Modeler
.

F3, got it, that makes perfect sense and looking at WinISD, it does show F3 as a purple horizontal line in the gain plot window. Also great info on how manufacturers' FR graphs are done!!

I do have Excel, sorry you have asked that before but I never responded.

A few other things I didn't respond to.
The Anarchy looks great but I think with shipping and tax it might push the budget too far compared to what's available in the UK. The WM16P-8 does seem to have better F3, F6 than the Anarchy however. Also just spotted the Anarchy is too big for my cab :D

Expense wise. I'm looking at this from the perspective of... outlay Vs end result I don't think I would get a set of Speakers this good off the shelf for the money. Based on off the shelf ones I've auditioned... £500-£800 range I was quite disappointed vs my Frankenstein efforts to date :)

REW, that looks very interesting indeed! I like the idea of optimising the xo based on the dynamics of the room. For me however that might be a little to precise because i'm likely to move house in the next year.

I agree, I'll do better with some help. I'm sure I will ask for it but for now I need to explore as much as I can.. learn from a few mistakes and then once I'm beat, ask for help :)
 
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Ah Falcon and spark is in the UK and in Manchester no less. That could make things easier.

I would forget about the Usher too then and certainly if the lowest f3 is of primary importance the RS might not be the best option.

Falcon do offer a back catalogue SEAS Excel driver

Seas W18EX-RA H1400-04 4 Ohm Woofer - Excel Series

That might be of interest for a bass application. I've not simmed it but it caught my eye a while back. A very nice price for a W18EX, it has a low qts so will absolutely need a ported box to give you any respectable bass. You've also got the various HDS drivers from Peerless to consider too as they could sim well for a decent f3.

My guess is that this


Scanspeak 18WU/8747T00 Woofer - Illuminator Range

Would be a good choice. It looks like it should sim for a low f3 and has a huge amount of xmax to boot. The only downside is the ridiculous price and possibly sensitivity. Where you choose to spend your money is up to you though.

You could save on the midrange and use the Vifa NE123. This also has excellent performance and will not let you down, it is actually very similar to the Satori MW13 in lots of ways. And with regards to the tweeter, the main benefits of the Satori ring dome is its ability to cross over low and with more shallow slopes. If you're using a small midrange driver then this is not at all necessary as you should easily be crossing north of 2kHz and preferably around 3kHz or so. This makes most of the point of the Satori tweeter fairly moot. Moot because you could easily go for the SB29RDNC-C000-4 instead. No it doesn't go as low but it is a lot less expensive and performs excellently when crossed over slightly higher. It also comes with the added benefit of being small. This will allow a much closer centre to centre distance between the midrange and tweeter and give much better vertical dispersion than that of a comparable tweeter with 104mm faceplate.

If the illuminator scan gives you the kind of bass performance you are after then it would definitely make sense to use it and to be a little bit more cost effective elsewhere.

Spark I am also in Manchester, where abouts are you located?

I'm based in Chester. So only 40 miles away :)

The SCANSPEAK 18WU/8747T00 WOOFER - ILLUMINATOR... Ouch that's a little too pricey for my taste! :)

Ribbon or Dome. I'm so tempted to try a ribbon tweeter. I'm worried they will be a bit harsh for my ears.. so I seem to flip between the two types. I'm not sure which way to go yet... possible coin toss! :)

Will have a look at the other drivers your recommended. Woofer wise I really like the look of the SBA Satori MW16P-8, so will work from there I think.
 
I'm just ruminating about what 5th element said concerning how the Satori is hard to beat in the midrange, so I just want to re-visit why you don't think a 3-way with a side-firing woofer is going to work in your room. So I'm thinking perhaps something like an SB29 tweeter with the Satori 6.5" sealed in 5 to 7L and then something like the SB23 on the side vented in about 25L.

Can you either give a brief description of where your speakers are going to sit in the room or post a picture of same?

Ribbon or dome is going to determine mid choice so perhaps you might try an audio store that just might have a speaker with a ribbon tweeter. That might help you with your decision. Might be easier said than done though. And of course, so much depends on the specific tweeter and the implementation......
 
I'm just ruminating about what 5th element said concerning how the Satori is hard to beat in the midrange, so I just want to re-visit why you don't think a 3-way with a side-firing woofer is going to work in your room. So I'm thinking perhaps something like an SB29 tweeter with the Satori 6.5" sealed in 5 to 7L and then something like the SB23 on the side vented in about 25L.

Can you either give a brief description of where your speakers are going to sit in the room or post a picture of same?

Ribbon or dome is going to determine mid choice so perhaps you might try an audio store that just might have a speaker with a ribbon tweeter. That might help you with your decision. Might be easier said than done though. And of course, so much depends on the specific tweeter and the implementation......

Thanks for the quick reply :)

Here's an image of my living room.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


Side firing and why i'd like to avoid wise. It's mostly aesthetics and a sub woofer isn't something id like to have because I live in an apartment. Its a concrete floor however I don't want bass to disturb my neighbours :)

I like the idea of a dedicate Mid, so a 3-way seems to make sense to me :) How about
2 x Satori MW16P + a tweeter?
or
1 x MW16P, 1 x MW13P + a tweeter?

We keep coming back to the Satori's in every design :)
 
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