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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus
Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus
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Old 20th March 2016, 03:58 AM   #21
peteleoni is offline peteleoni  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by system7 View Post
I did a bit of work tonight based on a low order crossover and the published frequency response.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

This is a lousy speaker IMO. We must wait and see what the filter actually is, but it looks like it stinks at many levels. Below is my remarkably predictive frequency response. I also tried a proper 3 way filter. A bit inefficient, but how it should be done IMO. Why do people put up with low order crossovers? They just plain distort on complex program material as Lynn often says.
Steve your work on my original B&W Matrix 3's was nothing short of spectacular. If I were the OP here I would be all ears towards Portsmouth. Of course Mr. Bowers did not have the computers and sw we have now, but your crossover design on my units was ideal.
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Last edited by peteleoni; 20th March 2016 at 04:01 AM.
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Old 20th March 2016, 03:06 PM   #22
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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AW, Pete, that was SUCH an interesting thread on the B&W Matrix 3:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...rid-xover.html

Click the image to open in full size.

What a nightmare filter, complete with protection circuit! It broke down to something MUCH simpler. That Zaph-type phase/time alignment network on the tweeter turned out to work better as a regular fourth order circuit with polarity flipped. Yet to this day, people still waste time on it!

Here's the unrefined circuit I knocked up for the Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus. It's all regular stuff, including the 6kHz LCR notch on the 6" bass, which is just a good way of taming the near 5kHz cone resonances that ALL 6" basses have. It's actually quite easy to use a big midrange in a 3 way, because you can do some impedance correction on the efficient mid.

So nothing hard about guessing what Troels has done here with the 6" SB acoustics LCR notch and probably 1.5mH bass coil:
SBAcoustics-61-MFC
Attached Images
File Type: png Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Reworked Circuit.PNG (13.1 KB, 252 views)
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Old 20th March 2016, 05:09 PM   #23
speakerdoctor is offline speakerdoctor  United States
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Originally Posted by Lojzek View Post
SF Concerto Grand Piano isn't exactly SF Grand Piano Domus.
Although, you're right that CGP has room for electrical improvements,
the beauty of the SF cabinets is almost unsurpassing. Italian school
of design.
If I could go off topic a bit, in my previous work life, I was a tech service engineer for the largest tea bag paper producer in the world and thus gained access to see quite a few tea packing plants around the world.
In one case, I was able to see two completely different designs accomplish the same end result: a tea bag that is folded and stapled (some of you know it as a Lipton tea bag). A German designed machine (Constanta) was quite complex with many moving parts and levers to fold the paper, introduce the tea, fold and staple the bag with a string and paper tag. OTOH, the Italian machine (IMA) probably had 10% of the moving parts the German machine had. Yes, the Italian school of elegant design.,
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Old 20th March 2016, 05:53 PM   #24
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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TBH, I'd leave appearances to the Italians, but engineering to the Germans. Maybe the whole project to the English, who have always gone for the final practical test.

Sorry, but that's how it is.

Engineering is a trade-off. All very well to make the best machine gun in the world, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_42. But cheap and cheerful and mass produced has its upside.

The Sten Gun was a terrible design by comparison. You certainly didn't want that accidentally going off within the confines of a US Sherman Tank, which with its Petrol fuel was always a bit of an ignition hazard.

But for sure, easily repaired in the battlefield. Better than waiting months for spare parts.
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Old 20th March 2016, 06:26 PM   #25
peteleoni is offline peteleoni  United States
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Ugh...I have owned a Tr7 and an xks. ☺
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Old 20th March 2016, 06:49 PM   #26
system7 is offline system7  United Kingdom
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Ugh...I have owned a Tr7 and an xks. ☺
Whatever I think of the Triumph TR7 and Jaguar XKS cars, the primary consideration was to pull birds. Admit it.

Hardly my pure view of engineering. Which is pure science in the end.

The worst problem we have in engineering is that people seek cheap solutions. Hence this compromised Sonus Faber design, which, IMO, doesn't win a cigar at all.
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Old 20th March 2016, 09:16 PM   #27
Nikon1975 is offline Nikon1975  Austria
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Dear All,

Let's try to fix this: I have done some homework and disassembled the speaker. I am drawing the schematic of the Xover.
The driver are like in the picture. It's interesting that the midrange has its own enclosure. The woofers are in parallel.

Attached some pictures:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0215.JPG (131.6 KB, 338 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0218.JPG (71.5 KB, 141 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0221.JPG (70.8 KB, 142 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0223.JPG (81.0 KB, 140 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0227.JPG (85.9 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0216.JPG (98.1 KB, 564 views)
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Old 20th March 2016, 09:52 PM   #28
peteleoni is offline peteleoni  United States
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Originally Posted by system7 View Post
Whatever I think of the Triumph TR7 and Jaguar XKS cars, the primary consideration was to pull birds. Admit it.

Hardly my pure view of engineering. Which is pure science in the end.

The worst problem we have in engineering is that people seek cheap solutions. Hence this compromised Sonus Faber design, which, IMO, doesn't win a cigar at all.
Not unless the chicks were mechanics😀
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Old 20th March 2016, 11:03 PM   #29
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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Science is pure. Engineering is a prostitute that has to take science and make it profitable.


Best,


Erik
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Old 20th March 2016, 11:05 PM   #30
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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Very interesting!

The crossover also looks interesting. Jantzen air and p-core inductors, but less expensive caps.

Lots and lots of caps and resistors in this crossover, I can't wait to see what it finally ends up looking like!

I still wonder if the entire XO design wasn't meant for different drivers.

The woofers were probably Seas with a Scanspeak tweeter? Hmmmm.

Best,


Erik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikon1975 View Post
Dear All,

Let's try to fix this: I have done some homework and disassembled the speaker. I am drawing the schematic of the Xover.
The driver are like in the picture. It's interesting that the midrange has its own enclosure. The woofers are in parallel.

Attached some pictures:
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