Hello guys!
Im im in need of your help right now.
First a little background history:
Around 2 years ago I built troel gravesens DTQWT and im been happy with them up until I tested them against some other speakers.
Me and my friends gathered a few speakers to do a shootout to see who had the best.
The speakers we tested was System Audio Explorer Master 4K$, System Audio Pandion 30 8K$, Yamaha Soavo 1 3K$, and a swedish brand DLS 55 for around 1K, And a Primare Combo for around 14K$ And my old yamaha reciever RX-V1700.
And to sum things up the Pandion 30 was the absolut winner and my DTQWT in the bottom.
Do I need to say I wanted something new ? =)
The pandion is a 2-way and uses Scan speak 15W/8531G00 and a D2905/990000 tweeter with a crossover frequency 2200 Hz (24 dB/oct.)
And now to my problem, on troels website I found his Ellam Dappo that uses 15W/8530G00 and R2604/832000 tweeter,
so I thought almost the same drivers so the sound should almost be the same too, ooh so wrong i was...
this one was even worse than the DTQWT, with a closed in and dull sound.
Just for fun I tried the crossover for the midrange from another DIY speaker called Mini Reference (Audio Components - Scan-Speak - Reference Line)
But it didnt do much difference, a little more open sound but not much.
So what do you guys think, is the differnce between 8531 and 8530 that big? or is it maybe the tweeter that makes all the difference.
Oh and I also have the XTZ Divine 100.33 at home right now, neither the the ellam dappo or DTQWT comes even close.
/Simon
Im im in need of your help right now.
First a little background history:
Around 2 years ago I built troel gravesens DTQWT and im been happy with them up until I tested them against some other speakers.
Me and my friends gathered a few speakers to do a shootout to see who had the best.
The speakers we tested was System Audio Explorer Master 4K$, System Audio Pandion 30 8K$, Yamaha Soavo 1 3K$, and a swedish brand DLS 55 for around 1K, And a Primare Combo for around 14K$ And my old yamaha reciever RX-V1700.
And to sum things up the Pandion 30 was the absolut winner and my DTQWT in the bottom.
Do I need to say I wanted something new ? =)
The pandion is a 2-way and uses Scan speak 15W/8531G00 and a D2905/990000 tweeter with a crossover frequency 2200 Hz (24 dB/oct.)
And now to my problem, on troels website I found his Ellam Dappo that uses 15W/8530G00 and R2604/832000 tweeter,
so I thought almost the same drivers so the sound should almost be the same too, ooh so wrong i was...
this one was even worse than the DTQWT, with a closed in and dull sound.
Just for fun I tried the crossover for the midrange from another DIY speaker called Mini Reference (Audio Components - Scan-Speak - Reference Line)
But it didnt do much difference, a little more open sound but not much.
So what do you guys think, is the differnce between 8531 and 8530 that big? or is it maybe the tweeter that makes all the difference.
Oh and I also have the XTZ Divine 100.33 at home right now, neither the the ellam dappo or DTQWT comes even close.
/Simon
speaker placements will affect your bass and mid bass response. i don't know the size of your room, but I'm guessing its not that big.
so in terms of midrange and treble presentation, a Big speakers in a small room and placed very near to boundary such as your photo indicated, it will have a lot of bass and mid bass energy. a Small speakers in a small room and placed near to boundary will usually have more balanced (as they don't as much quantity as big speakers with multiple (big) woofers) bass and mid bass presentation so that you hear more of midrange and treble.
of course this is assuming that your build is correct as the kit instructions.
note : i have not heard Troels design, but from the measurements, it is tuned to be in free space rather than near boundary.
if you haven't done this, try to play around with placements (you can do this temporarily ; even though your space won't allow it), move speakers away from the walls and spread as wide as you can, then toe in heavily so it crossed in front of you.
See what you think after that.
cheers
Henry
so in terms of midrange and treble presentation, a Big speakers in a small room and placed very near to boundary such as your photo indicated, it will have a lot of bass and mid bass energy. a Small speakers in a small room and placed near to boundary will usually have more balanced (as they don't as much quantity as big speakers with multiple (big) woofers) bass and mid bass presentation so that you hear more of midrange and treble.
of course this is assuming that your build is correct as the kit instructions.
note : i have not heard Troels design, but from the measurements, it is tuned to be in free space rather than near boundary.
if you haven't done this, try to play around with placements (you can do this temporarily ; even though your space won't allow it), move speakers away from the walls and spread as wide as you can, then toe in heavily so it crossed in front of you.
See what you think after that.
cheers
Henry
I've got to agree with Henry that placement and bafflestep boost is a big imponderable with speakers. I prefer less bass but placement close to the wall myself. Because excessive bass becomes intrusive when added to room gain.
But these speakers that you compare are all wildly different IMO. Regular MTM and big lively TQWT 8" mids and waveguided big tweeters with less top.
Troels is rapidly getting through updates with the TQWT types:
DTQWT-mkII
I can see some issues with the Ellam D'appo too:
Ellam d'
I found this circuit sounds bad with a regular amplifier:
This one sounds better:
There are other ways to have a HF path to ground:
So where does this lead? It's my opinion that bass notch tanks are a bit edgy at high volume. I tend to leave them off these days. So does Troels. He's also tending towards the 22R tweeter shunt these days.
Having done that, you then need to rethink tweeter level and impedance, but it's a fairly simple modelling job. The smoother the top end, the higher level you can give it, which makes for liveliness. The 15W/8530 and 15W/8531 seem very similar, so I don't think that's the problem.
For sure I wouldn't dump the two Troels designs without trying a few tweaks.
But these speakers that you compare are all wildly different IMO. Regular MTM and big lively TQWT 8" mids and waveguided big tweeters with less top.
Troels is rapidly getting through updates with the TQWT types:
DTQWT-mkII
I can see some issues with the Ellam D'appo too:
Ellam d'
I found this circuit sounds bad with a regular amplifier:
This one sounds better:
There are other ways to have a HF path to ground:
So where does this lead? It's my opinion that bass notch tanks are a bit edgy at high volume. I tend to leave them off these days. So does Troels. He's also tending towards the 22R tweeter shunt these days.
Having done that, you then need to rethink tweeter level and impedance, but it's a fairly simple modelling job. The smoother the top end, the higher level you can give it, which makes for liveliness. The 15W/8530 and 15W/8531 seem very similar, so I don't think that's the problem.
For sure I wouldn't dump the two Troels designs without trying a few tweaks.
Do you mean a Scanspeak 15W/4531G Revelator 5.5".
AVREPORT.ru: ?????? ????? ????? ??????: ???????? ??
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...anspeak-15w/4531g-revelator-5.5-woofer-4-ohm/
www.audioexcite.com ScanSpeak 15W/4531G00
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Do you mean a Scanspeak 15W/8530K-00 5" Revelator.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...peak-15w/8530k-00-5-revelator-woofer-low-qts/
Ellam d'
Hi Simon,
Troels Gravesen's designs usually have a falling frequency response with a reduced tweeter level. But I think he went too far when he did the Ellam Dappo, at least my simulation shows a level difference of 4 dB. Since your woofers even are a little louder I'm not surprised at all it sounds dull.
Your speaker obviously needs a new crossover. Please clarify the woofer you are using, I assume it's the 15W/8531K00. Further it seems you didn't use the original baffle dimensions and driver layout of the Ellam Dappo. Any information and a front view of your speaker would help to know what we are talking about and to propose a customized crossover.
Troels Gravesen's designs usually have a falling frequency response with a reduced tweeter level. But I think he went too far when he did the Ellam Dappo, at least my simulation shows a level difference of 4 dB. Since your woofers even are a little louder I'm not surprised at all it sounds dull.
Your speaker obviously needs a new crossover. Please clarify the woofer you are using, I assume it's the 15W/8531K00. Further it seems you didn't use the original baffle dimensions and driver layout of the Ellam Dappo. Any information and a front view of your speaker would help to know what we are talking about and to propose a customized crossover.
Attachments
Troels Gravesen doubtless has the usual lively Scandinavian wooden and bare and underdamped room, so designs to that preference with a BBC dip.
For sure, the Vifa/Scanspeak R2604 non-ferrofluid ring radiator needs some impedance correction at 750Hz. I really don't see much difference between a SS 15W and a Vifa PL14WJ. Both 5" paper woofers.
Ellam d'
Vifa PL14WJ-
Both 3kHz crossover. But the devil lies in the details. I don't much approve of parallel wired MTM's, as it goes. But like ring radiators, despite never having heard one in my life. I am a theoretician.
For sure, the Vifa/Scanspeak R2604 non-ferrofluid ring radiator needs some impedance correction at 750Hz. I really don't see much difference between a SS 15W and a Vifa PL14WJ. Both 5" paper woofers.
Ellam d'
Vifa PL14WJ-
Both 3kHz crossover. But the devil lies in the details. I don't much approve of parallel wired MTM's, as it goes. But like ring radiators, despite never having heard one in my life. I am a theoretician.
Attachments
Troels Gravesen doubtless has the usual lively Scandinavian wooden and bare and underdamped room, so designs to that preference with a BBC dip.
Here is a tantalising little video clip Troels has posted of his Mk. 2 SEAS 3-Way Classics in his system. You can see that they are situated a good metre away from the walls, which will reduce the bass level out in the room, and - as Steve imagines - the floor is bare boards, which will further sharpen the sound. I would guess that this is the environment that he designs for.
My own Mk 2 Classics are ever so slightly warm in their tonal balance, partly because our living room is quite plushly furnished and carpeted by Scandinavian standards, and partly because the speakers are perforce only about 10cm from the back wall.
Alex
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Thanks for all the respons guys, I appreciate it.
I know that speaker placement can do some difference but I dont think thats the problem right now.
My living room is around 24 square meters + very open to my kitchen which is another 24 square meters.
When we did the testing I brought my speakers to my friend and his living room I would guess is around 60-70 square meters.
I will bring my System audio clones to his house now on tusday to do some more testing.
I have built his latest mkII with the best crossover kit, the mkIII requires new elements.
The DTQWT plays a big and open sound but lacks the detail, with all the others we heard things we didnt with DTQWT.
The bass was also something that was lacking, with the 4 12" eminence we thought it would be the winner in that area.. but no.. the bass was almost non existent and with the crossover frequency to high we could hear them clearly playing voices and the sound bouncing on the walls back to the front just made them sound weird, we tried placing them around 1m from the wall (I dont think anyone would have them further out than that) but whit no luck.. hanging a towl on the backside did help though.
Anyway, back to the Ellam, you are suggesting that I place a 22R resistor parallel to the tweeter?
The last picture im not sure I understand, "There are other ways to have a HF path to ground"?
The suggested tweeter level by troels is 2,7R im using 1,8 right now.
Maybe I should try even lower..
The original bookshelf pandion uses 15W/4531G and the floorstanding the 8ohm version
I use the 15W/8530K00
It's the 15W/8530K00 version that I use, all the drivers are the same as troels used in his design.
I have changed the design a little, the tweeter isn't offset and the baffle are narrower than the original, 17,5cm instead of 21cm. But I wouldnt think that changes the sound to much?
My design is an exact copy of system audio's Pandion 30. They even show the drawings online.
I know that speaker placement can do some difference but I dont think thats the problem right now.
My living room is around 24 square meters + very open to my kitchen which is another 24 square meters.
When we did the testing I brought my speakers to my friend and his living room I would guess is around 60-70 square meters.
I will bring my System audio clones to his house now on tusday to do some more testing.
Troels is rapidly getting through updates with the TQWT types:
DTQWT-mkII
I can see some issues with the Ellam D'appo too:
Ellam d'
I found this circuit sounds bad with a regular amplifier:
This one sounds better:
There are other ways to have a HF path to ground:
So where does this lead? It's my opinion that bass notch tanks are a bit edgy at high volume. I tend to leave them off these days. So does Troels. He's also tending towards the 22R tweeter shunt these days.
Having done that, you then need to rethink tweeter level and impedance, but it's a fairly simple modelling job. The smoother the top end, the higher level you can give it, which makes for liveliness. The 15W/8530 and 15W/8531 seem very similar, so I don't think that's the problem.
For sure I wouldn't dump the two Troels designs without trying a few tweaks.
I have built his latest mkII with the best crossover kit, the mkIII requires new elements.
The DTQWT plays a big and open sound but lacks the detail, with all the others we heard things we didnt with DTQWT.
The bass was also something that was lacking, with the 4 12" eminence we thought it would be the winner in that area.. but no.. the bass was almost non existent and with the crossover frequency to high we could hear them clearly playing voices and the sound bouncing on the walls back to the front just made them sound weird, we tried placing them around 1m from the wall (I dont think anyone would have them further out than that) but whit no luck.. hanging a towl on the backside did help though.
Anyway, back to the Ellam, you are suggesting that I place a 22R resistor parallel to the tweeter?
The last picture im not sure I understand, "There are other ways to have a HF path to ground"?
The suggested tweeter level by troels is 2,7R im using 1,8 right now.
Maybe I should try even lower..
The original bookshelf pandion uses 15W/4531G and the floorstanding the 8ohm version
I use the 15W/8530K00
Hi Simon,
Troels Gravesen's designs usually have a falling frequency response with a reduced tweeter level. But I think he went too far when he did the Ellam Dappo, at least my simulation shows a level difference of 4 dB. Since your woofers even are a little louder I'm not surprised at all it sounds dull.
Your speaker obviously needs a new crossover. Please clarify the woofer you are using, I assume it's the 15W/8531K00. Further it seems you didn't use the original baffle dimensions and driver layout of the Ellam Dappo. Any information and a front view of your speaker would help to know what we are talking about and to propose a customized crossover.
It's the 15W/8530K00 version that I use, all the drivers are the same as troels used in his design.
I have changed the design a little, the tweeter isn't offset and the baffle are narrower than the original, 17,5cm instead of 21cm. But I wouldnt think that changes the sound to much?
My design is an exact copy of system audio's Pandion 30. They even show the drawings online.
Ok, looks like you gave them a fair run.
some note for the DTQWT, i think Troels mentioned about putting a grill with thick felt to increase low pass filter for the 2 eminence woofers. 24m2 is quite small for speakers with that size even though it bleeds out to another room.
did u double checked if the woofers are in the right phase? running a sweep with a mic would be the best approach, just to make sure the speakers are all in phase to it's related drivers.
at the end of the day, speakers is come right down to crossover tuning. as it is somewhat DIY, you can always adjust them to fit with your taste.
with narrower baffle, the baffle step freq will move up, it may or may not have significant effect depending on the crossover.
cheers
Henry
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I had a look at the Ellam Dappo crossover:
It's actually overly fussy IMO.
The 22R and 0.33uF tank does next to nothing acting quite high. And lowers top end impedance to uncomfortably low.
The LCR just drops the "presence band" midrange 2dB at 1kHz.
I think you usually need a shunt resistor with a ring-radiator to damp the Fs.
You could disconnect the tank, and maybe even the LCR IMO.
Lose the 1.8R, and add shunt 10R. Keep the 3.9uF and 11.2uF if you want, or replace with a single 4.7uF for second order. Impedance is definitely in the 4 ohm bracket, but not too wild.
The DTQWT is not something I want to think about right now, but should be a gutsy speaker IMO.
It's actually overly fussy IMO.
The 22R and 0.33uF tank does next to nothing acting quite high. And lowers top end impedance to uncomfortably low.
The LCR just drops the "presence band" midrange 2dB at 1kHz.
I think you usually need a shunt resistor with a ring-radiator to damp the Fs.
You could disconnect the tank, and maybe even the LCR IMO.
Lose the 1.8R, and add shunt 10R. Keep the 3.9uF and 11.2uF if you want, or replace with a single 4.7uF for second order. Impedance is definitely in the 4 ohm bracket, but not too wild.
The DTQWT is not something I want to think about right now, but should be a gutsy speaker IMO.
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Great points, Steve! I'm building the Ellam D'Appo now. If it doesn't sound good in my room, I'll try your crossover. My starting point is 2.2 Ohm for the series tweeter, instead of 2.7 Ohms.I had a look at the Ellam Dappo crossover:
It's actually overly fussy IMO.
The 22R and 0.33uF tank does next to nothing acting quite high. And lowers top end impedance to uncomfortably low.
The LCR just drops the "presence band" midrange 2dB at 1kHz.
I think you usually need a shunt resistor with a ring-radiator to damp the Fs.
You could disconnect the tank, and maybe even the LCR IMO.
Lose the 1.8R, and add shunt 10R. Keep the 3.9uF and 11.2uF if you want, or replace with a single 4.7uF for second order. Impedance is definitely in the 4 ohm bracket, but not too wild.
The DTQWT is not something I want to think about right now, but should be a gutsy speaker IMO.
On a previous eVeII build with the typical narrow baffle, an LCR as such would've been welcome since it's a bit forward from 700-1000Hz. So, I might keep the LCR here on the D'Appo. I'm almost done with a custom "Andromeda III" from Tony Gee, so the D'Appo is my first Troels project. I also have the ATS-4 still in boxes. My room is carpeted, a far cry from Troels' bringht listening room. It will be interesting how this project will turn out.
I have tried a few different things now.
The first was to change the polarity of the tweeter, BIG difference.
Now it started to sound like a good speaker, it no longer had that dull and boring sound.
I have checked and tripple checked the crossover and everything was connected correct after Troels crossover layout, weird.
Although the sound improved much I still didn't feel satisfied so I have tried the crossover System7 recommended but the changes was small, taking away the LCR made the midrange a little to forward so I left it in.
The only change that did improve was to remove the 1 ohm resistor, it helped a little to raise the treble.
I still didn't feel satisfied so I placed an order for the D2904/9800 tweeter, according to troel a change can be made whitout changing anything in the crossover.
What a waste of money.. the sonic difference to R2604 was little to none.
But.. im not giving up =)
Audio Components has a speaker called Mini Reference that uses the same midrange as Troels Dappo but a different tweeter, a D2904/71000.
So I ordered a new tweeter and crossover components to try this one out.
Again I was dissapointed, the tweeter sounded ok but the midrange was way to much making it sound "boxy", but this gave me an idea, the dappo midrange was a little more laidback and the tweeter on the Mini Reference sounded really good so why not combine the two.
Said and done I did the changes and WOW.. now it starts to sound like a really good speaker.
I dont know if this crossover is the best but it do sound really good.
At Least fairly flat
The first was to change the polarity of the tweeter, BIG difference.
Now it started to sound like a good speaker, it no longer had that dull and boring sound.
I have checked and tripple checked the crossover and everything was connected correct after Troels crossover layout, weird.
Although the sound improved much I still didn't feel satisfied so I have tried the crossover System7 recommended but the changes was small, taking away the LCR made the midrange a little to forward so I left it in.
The only change that did improve was to remove the 1 ohm resistor, it helped a little to raise the treble.
I still didn't feel satisfied so I placed an order for the D2904/9800 tweeter, according to troel a change can be made whitout changing anything in the crossover.
What a waste of money.. the sonic difference to R2604 was little to none.
But.. im not giving up =)
Audio Components has a speaker called Mini Reference that uses the same midrange as Troels Dappo but a different tweeter, a D2904/71000.
So I ordered a new tweeter and crossover components to try this one out.
Again I was dissapointed, the tweeter sounded ok but the midrange was way to much making it sound "boxy", but this gave me an idea, the dappo midrange was a little more laidback and the tweeter on the Mini Reference sounded really good so why not combine the two.
Said and done I did the changes and WOW.. now it starts to sound like a really good speaker.
I dont know if this crossover is the best but it do sound really good.
At Least fairly flat
Thanks, Shure! That new FR looks awesome! The 71000, along with the "Air-Circ" soft domes, might require LCR correction because of the Fs=500Hz+ at high volume. If it works, leave it!
I'm sure you'll find a good use for the 98000. The 9800 tweeter has worked beautifully in my Geers eVeII - transparent, smooth, detailed, musical. I have a feeling the XT25TG might be darker. However, I have both tweeters to swap.
In Troels' new crossover layout, he does have the tweeter out of phase, but the schematic is in phase. So, I'll wire them out of phase since the the mid is 2nd order, and the tweeter is 3rd order. I'm going with the Mundorf LL60 Hepta Strand for the 0.82mH - touted for their fine detail, dynamic, holographic sound stage. This goes well with the spacious and neutral nature of the Superior Z-Caps. For tweeters, I find the Superior Z-Caps aren't as extended, so I'm going with Silver Z-Caps for more detailed extension. Here is my crossover mock up, (without the bypass components).
Questions:
1. Did you experiment with Mid and tweeter caps?...
2. Did you experiment with vent stuffing?... I am thinking of aperiodic - slightly stuffed. VB-2HD sound damping sheets, carpet felt, egg crate foam on rear of cabinet, add Acousta-fill until boxiness goes away.
Great suggestion, Steve! I am going to try it out before siliconing the parts onto the board. I have all the indicated values. Indeed, a little higher impedence should be an improvement. It will decongest the crossover board too. This seems like it was an experimental project on behalf of Troels' friend, Jesper, so I don't think he spent as much time on balancing and voicing like his other projects. As he states, crossover was mainly based on simulation.Ellam D'Appo:
Ellam d'
I'm suggesting you lose the 1 or 1.8R series resistor after the tweeter filter and add a shunt 15 or 22R. Actually improves impedance and might sound better at the top. Not a radical change.
Thanks again!
1. I have only tried different values, not different brands, im sure that higher quality components can make a difference but I have never tried it.
When I decide what speaker im gonna live with for the next years to come I will experiment with higher quality caps.
2. On all sides except the front I have used carpet felt, I have tried stuffing the box with polyester wool both much and little, but it didn't do much of a difference.
Changing the tweeter did the biggest difference, it's not even comparable to the XT25. Sounds like an all new speaker.
But I must say that even the change of tweeter made a HUGE improvement it still doesn't come close to the xtz Divine.
So now im not sure what to do, maybe I choose the xtz or maybe I try the D2905/990000 tweeter that the real System audio pandion 30 uses.
I have the crossover schematic from the smaller Pandion 2, do you think that I can use that and simply and another mid driver?
Interestingly, I've written to Troels in the past if he had any plans for a DIY 7" D'Appolito. He stated that it's more of the same, referring to the Ellam D'Appo. I have a pair of Adam S3A Monitors which I use for my computer monitors. So, like you, I love the holographic magic that D'Appolitos can render.
The XTZ Divine uses exquisite drivers, but it's 7" and not 5.25". The Accuton ceramic cones should render a more neutral presentation with blacker background. Ceramic tweeters are have more transient detail, neutral, and a "blacker background." They are in a different class than any of the soft dome tweeters which sound detailed too but in a "silky" way, and not as quiet.
The Scan-Speak sandwich/coated paper cones are more lively than the Accuton ceramic cones. Indeed, the Pandion design should sound more lively than the Ellam D'Appodue to the 99000 tweeter. I think there is a DIY schematic for the 18W/8531G and 99000 drivers. The 99000 tweeter in the Pandion 30 should be more strident in the highs than any of the other soft dome tweeters you've tried - XT25, 98000, 71000. The 99000 has a 2-4kHz peak on an infinite baffle, and its pseudo-wave guide faceplate might contribute to more presence. It also handles a crazy 430W.
As far as adding another woofer to the Pandion 2, you'll have to modify the crossover for sure. It uses a 4th-order crossover in the mid. It might mean complete overhaul of the circuit. I don't know -- Someone should chime in for that...
As far as soft domes go, I've read that the 71000 and 66000 seem to be the best among the soft domes available. Soft domes have come a long way in the past 10-15 years.
I've also ordered all the parts for the Scan-Speak Ophelia project that appeared in the Klang & Ton. However, not a MTM, it's a MMT that uses the 18W/8531G00 (2) and 714000 Be tweeter. The 18W Revelator has a great midrange quality, and the Be tweeter is on the same class as diamonds and ceramics - dynamic, descriptive, black background. I'll be using Cu foil inductors, Mundorf Supreme for the 7", and 3.3 uF Jupitor Cu Foil Cap for the tweeter. I have high hopes for this speaker.
I have a pair of Adam S3A Monitors which I use for my computer monitors. So, like you, I love the holographic magic that D'Appolitos can render.The XTZ Divine uses exquisite drivers, but it's 7" and not 5.25". The Accuton ceramic cones should render a more neutral presentation with blacker background. Ceramic tweeters are have more transient detail, neutral, and a "blacker background." They are in a different class than any of the soft dome tweeters which sound detailed too but in a "silky" way, and not as quiet.
The Scan-Speak sandwich/coated paper cones are more lively than the Accuton ceramic cones. Indeed, the Pandion design should sound more lively than the Ellam D'Appodue to the 99000 tweeter. I think there is a DIY schematic for the 18W/8531G and 99000 drivers. The 99000 tweeter in the Pandion 30 should be more strident in the highs than any of the other soft dome tweeters you've tried - XT25, 98000, 71000. The 99000 has a 2-4kHz peak on an infinite baffle, and its pseudo-wave guide faceplate might contribute to more presence. It also handles a crazy 430W.
As far as adding another woofer to the Pandion 2, you'll have to modify the crossover for sure. It uses a 4th-order crossover in the mid. It might mean complete overhaul of the circuit. I don't know -- Someone should chime in for that...
As far as soft domes go, I've read that the 71000 and 66000 seem to be the best among the soft domes available. Soft domes have come a long way in the past 10-15 years.
I've also ordered all the parts for the Scan-Speak Ophelia project that appeared in the Klang & Ton. However, not a MTM, it's a MMT that uses the 18W/8531G00 (2) and 714000 Be tweeter. The 18W Revelator has a great midrange quality, and the Be tweeter is on the same class as diamonds and ceramics - dynamic, descriptive, black background. I'll be using Cu foil inductors, Mundorf Supreme for the 7", and 3.3 uF Jupitor Cu Foil Cap for the tweeter. I have high hopes for this speaker.
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I finished the Dappos, and they sound very good, better than I expected - a balanced sound of bass and highs. I wired the tweeters in reverse polarity as some suggested. However, the frequency response sounds notched around 3kHz upon critical listening.
Is this the proverbial tweeter "suck-out" one sees on reverse polarity plots?... I guess I should change the tweeter to positive polarity. Most D'Appolitos crossovers seem to be wired in positive polarity when searching though Google archives. Any advice whether tweeters should have positive polarity or be reversed?...
Thanks.
Is this the proverbial tweeter "suck-out" one sees on reverse polarity plots?... I guess I should change the tweeter to positive polarity. Most D'Appolitos crossovers seem to be wired in positive polarity when searching though Google archives. Any advice whether tweeters should have positive polarity or be reversed?...
Thanks.
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