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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Mini-Synergy Horn Experiment
Mini-Synergy Horn Experiment
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Old 22nd October 2017, 05:02 PM   #451
natehansen66 is offline natehansen66  United States
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I should add that the short throat on these neo drivers can be an advantage in a Synergy horn as far as the mid/cd reflection notch is concerned. I gained maybe 50hz in high end extension on the mids which is nothing really, however there is now a pronounced reflection notch around 2khz. With the 4552 there was no real discernable notch.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 05:40 PM   #452
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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I think there's three things going on here:

1) the BMS drivers simply have less output below 1500hz. If you compare a BMS to a B&C, it's like comparing a woofer with low QTS to a woofer with high QTS. The F3 may be similar, but the roll-off is shallower in the former. The cause of this is low MMS; the BMS has low MMS because it's a ring not a dome.

This might be the reason Danley uses them; the slower roll-off makes it easier to get the mid-range and tweeter in phase.

2) the problem may have become worse over time because the drivers broke in. You see the same thing with woofers, the qts and fs goes down when they're broken in.

3) there are a few solutions you can try. First, use a waveguide with a narrower angle. If you cut the coverage angle in half, the tweeter works half as hard to maintain the same SPL. Another option is (gasp) a diffraction slot. A diffraction slot loads the compression driver by reducing it's radiation to a smaller volume. (A Paraline is a diffraction slot, albeit an oddly shaped one.) Or all of the above. If you look at the Danley catalog, he uses all of these options in various models.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 05:55 PM   #453
natehansen66 is offline natehansen66  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post

2) the problem may have become worse over time because the drivers broke in. You see the same thing with woofers, the qts and fs goes down when they're broken in.
I think "broken" rather than "broken in". I just looked in the gap on the 4552 under magnification and there is definitely some fine metal shavings sticking to the walls. Also, there appears to be some sort of corrosion on the edge of the vc with the former.....due to the metal dust I guess. I would take a pic but my phone can't focus that small.

Moral of the story - keep the damn compression drivers out of the shop!
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Old 22nd October 2017, 06:27 PM   #454
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Eric Holdaway recommends cleaning out the gap with tape periodically, for this reason.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 06:50 PM   #455
natehansen66 is offline natehansen66  United States
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I have no idea who that is but I was thinking about giving it a shot.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 07:15 PM   #456
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Bah! I'm getting my "Erics" mixed up. The Holdaway family owns Speakerworks in Orange CA, and they largely introduced the use of prosound gear into the car audio world back in the early 90s. A lot of Emilar gear (Emilar was a few blocks from their shop, and I believe a lot of the people from Emilar wound up at Radian, which is also in the same vicinity.) Eric Holdaway was one of the people who encouraged me to DIY horns back in the 90s, and sent me off on this crazy DIY journey.

Eric Stevens is also a big proponent of horns. He's one of the founders of Image Dynamics. Bruce Edgar's warehouse used to be next door to Image Dynamics.

Eric Stevens is the one who encouraged car audio guys to clean those compression drivers:

Cleaning Voice Coil Gap on Compression Drivers - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum
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Old 13th January 2018, 12:18 PM   #457
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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FWIW: In post #239 and #255 of this thread Dr. Geddes refers to the papers of Dr. David Griesinger on perception of phase coherence, or offically: "Phase Coherence as a Measure of Acoustic Quality".

A quote:
"The three papers in this series focus on engagement, which results when sounds demand, and hold, our attention. Engagement is related to the perception of distance, and is distinct from intelligibility.
Sounds perceived as close demand attention and convey drama. Sounds perceived as further away can be perfectly intelligible, but can be easily ignored. The properties of sound that lead to engagement also covey musical clarity one is able, albeit with some practice, to hear all the notes in a piece, and not just the harmonies."

All three papers are available here.
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