Best 8 inch woofer?

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sphinx

sphinx

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Joined 2004
digitalthor said:
SB23NRX seems just shy of snappy and detailed - and maybe a bit warmer and less detailed than I would like. And they can't do that "snap" with my favorite test track - Hotel California - live 1994. In the beginning of the track, there is a shift between a wack on a drum, where they take turns of being silenced right after the wack, and letting the drum "ring out". One wack/stop = "BOM" - next wack/let go = "BOMMMMMM". If that makes any sense :ROFLMAO:
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Love that track! The "snap" can be influenced by many factors including frequency response, directivity, enclosure alignment, XO freq, XO order, listening room acoustics, speaker position, listener position, etc.

Did you at least match up the SB23NRX freq resp to the woofer you compared it to?
 
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savan

Member
Joined 2021
Yes, original one from 15 years ago was fabric cone treatment and also edge treatment, speaking about HM170G8, but when I bought replacement speakers the same version, 5 years ago, to replace my old HM I got non treated one, bought from Toutlehautparleur, so if you going to buy one ask them first about membrane and egde treatment, if not you will need to do it yourelf, I done with ModPdge with success, confirmed by measurements that it helped to clear cone things isue at 2-3k freq range. I coated booth membrane and edge without interruption. Those paper membrane Audax is very good sounding speakers!
 
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savan

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Joined 2021
This is another great low loss suspension speaker from France https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/br...aker-kartesian-wom165-vms-8-ohm-164-5-mm.html , I didn't tested but looks promissing for my next speaker project, I'm looking for more dynamic and it look like an ideal driver for my need. There is an high end version similar to this one but not a cheap https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/speaker-kartesian-wom165-vhe-8-ohm-164-4-mm.html . For those who looking for something that are not so commercially forced today.
 
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Kwesi

Kwesi

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Joined 2022
PKAudio said:
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SB23xxx (CAC if I recall well, ~40l BR) - your perception of the sound of this driver is correct, or at least matches my experience. SB17 drivers are very similar.
WO24P (45l BR, 45l closed) - better then SB23 and SB17, though basic characteristics are very similar.
They both play deep, but that is the only good I can say about them. Skilled designer with good ears can get them sounding almost good, but once you compare to other woofers the difference is quite clear.
22W Discovery, I did not work with these, but based on 26W Discovery I assume good bass quality, lighter snappy fast detailed kind of the bass
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Thanks for sharing your comprehensive experience!

I can confirm a slightly "soft/muddy" tendency in the fundamentals from experience with SB15NBAC, SB17CAC and WO24P, as well my judgement is not so harsh than yours. I got subjective improvements for the SB15 and WO24P by adding bucking magnets. I had always the feeling that the WO24P could not completely follow the dynamics of the mid/tweeter unit, but after adding the magnet they got pretty neutral and I'm reasonable satisfied with them for now.

I have also used the 26W Discovery few times very sucessfully in BR as well as CB, it became my personal reference for flawless, precise bass quality and I really love them. In CB you can drive them to Xmech with almost no DC jumping and still sounding very clear.
So I would also expect a lot from the 22W Discovery (never used/heared them), they would be my first choice If I would be seaching for a 8" to be used in CB. I also like the low moving mass and low resonance frequency of them, and they are quite efficient/sensitive.

Best regards
Peter

EDIT: Came in my mind that I used Peerless/Tymphany HDS205 Nomex ~15 years ago as woofer in a 3-way and also as midwoofer together with a Seas silk tweeter.
It was playing astonishing well in the midrange! No exact memory about the bass quality, but also cannot remember drawbacks or issues with that....
 
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PKAudio

PKAudio

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pkaudio.webnode.cz/
Kwesi: thank you for confirming bucking magnets improve SB drivers, I never tried that with them, only for 21W Classic, 18W Classic and noticed mild improvement too.

I admit I might sound harsh about SB and WO24P, There were 5 projects where I used SB17CAC (2way) and NBAC (2x woofer in 3way), MW16P (2way and also mid in 3way), MW16TXN (mid in 3way), and WO24P (woofer in 3way), the sound was almost good but eventually at 4 of them I had to replace the drivers with Scan Speak, Peerless NE and completely rework the crossover. In all cases the replacement drivers worked almost immediatelly and sound was good. You can imagine it was all a lot of work.
Scan Speak and SB/Satori are not good partners.
SB/Satori tweeters are different story, these I like a lot.
 
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PKAudio

PKAudio

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Kwesi: 22W disco are easy to use and make the crossover for, measure basically flat with uphill response which is easy to correct. The look and the build quality are perfect. Back then I had a lot of other projects so I decided not to finish the project and sell the drivers. Nowadays I consider making 8" 3way floorstander and 22W Disco is my first choice, + 15W/4424 and very likely TW030WA11, hoping to make it all LR2 with the straight baffle.

Edit: and it is quite high sensitivity, considering it is hifi driver. I expect resulting speaker sensitivity close to 90dB/2.83V/1m for 4ohm version.
 
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jerome69

jerome69

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Joined 2008
digitalthor said:
And they can't do that "snap" with my favorite test track - Hotel California - live 1994. In the beginning of the track, there is a shift between a wack on a drum, where they take turns of being silenced right after the wack, and letting the drum "ring out". One wack/stop = "BOM" - next wack/let go = "BOMMMMMM". If that makes any sense
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It was my favorite test disk in 1996 on a high end system : CD CEC TL0 + DAC AudioSynthesis (heavily tweak to cope with the TL0) + Audiosynthesis Passive Amp + AudioSynthesis Desire Amp + Speaker ATC SCM20. This system did it very well in this sequence :)

PKAudio said:
WO24P (45l BR, 45l closed) - better then SB23 and SB17, though basic characteristics are very similar.
They both play deep, but that is the only good I can say about them. Skilled designer with good ears can get them sounding almost good, but once you compare to other woofers the difference is quite clear.
22W Discovery, I did not work with these, but based on 26W Discovery I assume good bass quality, lighter snappy fast detailed kind of the bass
Sica 8" (~25l BR, 25l closed) is good. Good balance of low end extension, detail and required volume, + it works well in closed box. It is good allrounder.
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I own the three drivers. Two or more opinions better then one :) I confirm All !
The WO24P goes low, 50L with a PR and I use it below 400Hz in a 3 ways. Nothing to add, it does its job well.
I have worked with the 22W8534, good in the low bass and midrange but above 1kHz, i don't like it. I have had some problems to use it in a two ways , 27L aperiodic box, tweeter a 27DXT, I manage to have something very acceptable, good in the bass-midrange but no so good in the middle treble. This driver does its best in a 3 ways.
I like a lot the SICA, 30L PR, used with a 1" compression, the speaker has a very warm sound, dynamic and detailed ! My Primare class D sound like a tube amplifier.

About Audax, some subjective impressions on the cones
  • The paper is Ok HM210G6
  • HM210CP no Idea about carbon cone.
  • H210ZO Aerogel is a little different, like Alu cone tremendous bass but the midrange couldn't please everyone. I don't write it is bad but this cone can make debate.
 
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A

AjohnL

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Joined 2023
PKAudio said:
jerome69: your experience with 22W Discovery not being good for a 2way >1Khz matches the experience that got to me from another diyer, he reported the same and recommended the driver for woofer duty in 3way..
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Some of this thread reminds me of another. A musician looking for the best 6 1/2 woofer for a 2 way. No interest in rather deep bass. F3 40Hz. Might have been 50. Initial posts seemed to favour that size but mention of 8" eventually cropped up. Scan or Seas, not sure but some one simulated an arrangement for him. Rather complicated xover down to the behaviour of the spl graph.

6 1/2" drivers tend to have better responses and less beaming in the 2kHz region.
 
jerome69

jerome69

Member
Joined 2008
Not sure it is only a problem of beaming. I heard a lost of precision in the sound. I think it is also a problem of motor ? The aluminum ring is not enough ?
My crossover is simple one inductor and an RC compensation on the 22W354. I align the acoustic center of the tweeter, one capacitor on it with attenuation for the crossover at 2.5kHz. I do not want to do more complex crossover with 24dB acoustic slope.
In an other post about 4/5", a diyer has a speaker with a Beyma 8M60N 8" and he use it till 5kHz ! Beaming seems not to degrade too much the sound.
 
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D

digitalthor

Member
Joined 2018
PKAudio said:
21W Classic (37l BR, 33l BR) excellent, this one really shows what scan speak bass quality is about, not overly snappy but the detail and certain ability not to sound boomy is great. It has firm bass and in that regard it is better then 22W Revelator.
U22REX is very likely, and based on recommendations of other, very good as well.
WF223BD 8ohm, I used two in one loudspeaker, ~70l in total, BR, go very deep, but softer kind of the bass, less snappy compared to 21W Classic
22W Revelator (~33l BR) softer sounding compared to 21W which is not complaint. Excellent woofer.
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Wavecor is also 2/3 of the Classic price and only 40% of the Revelator price - where I live - that is.

I can see that we are also dividing woofers in roughly 2 camps here. Woofers for 3 ways - max 5-600Hz and woofers for 2 ways, max 2kHz. That's 2 octave difference - especially considering the beaming that all 8" drivers run into at around 1kHz.

Dayton RS225, Wavecor WF223B and Satori WO24, are the only one's I have seen in 2 ways....
 
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A

abstract

Member
Joined 2014
digitalthor said:
I can see that we are also dividing woofers in roughly 2 camps here. Woofers for 3 ways - max 5-600Hz and woofers for 2 ways, max 2kHz. That's 2 octave difference - especially considering the beaming that all 8" drivers run into at around 1kHz.

Dayton RS225, Wavecor WF223B and Satori WO24, are the only one's I have seen in 2 ways....
Click to expand...
When I'm checking random driver datasheets blind, some of the specs can give hints:

3 way / subwoofer:
-long voice coil, relatively short gap height, high Xmax,
-Alu coil former for high power,
-probably low VAS, high mms, low fs etc all tuned for extended bass.
-nominal 8 ohm impedance rises to 20 ohm at some unimpressive frequency like 2kHz.

2 way / midwoofer / extended midrange:
-short voice coil relative to magnetic gap height, low Xmax,
-non-conductive coil former (I don't know if this one is a hard and fast rule - iirc, Eton used titanium in a 7" midwoofer I have lying around and it sounds very good.)
-lower mms, small dust cap, skinny rubber or cloth surround -- all aiming for extended midrange.
-nominal 8 ohm impedance rises to 20 ohms much, much higher, like 5kHz or so (remember to adjust for the exact DC resistance when comparing drivers).
 
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