Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

"ok" to use a tweeter lower than suggested with horn/waveguide
"ok" to use a tweeter lower than suggested with horn/waveguide
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 25th May 2015, 05:14 AM   #1
ReDress is offline ReDress  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Default "ok" to use a tweeter lower than suggested with horn/waveguide

Hey guys,

I've been intrigued by this topic ever since I found Amphion's pro line of monitors. The thing that I always found odd, however, is that upon learning what tweeter driver they used (response is from 2000-20khz), yet....their crossover point is at 1600hz. I find that quite intriguing in that use the tweeter 400hz lower than the manufacturer recommends it to be used. Is it because of the horn loading/implementation of a waveguide that allows them to pull it off?

(I ask because I'm interested in horn loading an AMT to lower its response after having learned and been inspired by Amphion's lowered crossover point)

Many thanks in advance guys. Much love
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2015, 05:39 AM   #2
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: US
https://plus.google.com/photos/101632266659473725850

specifically:

https://plus.google.com/photos/10163...66659473725850


-as far as power input/distortion/etc.. that's something you usually model in your crossover program. Remember though that directivity decreases with freq.. but then so does the mid-range/mid-bass driver.
__________________
perspective is everything

Last edited by ScottG; 25th May 2015 at 05:47 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2015, 07:58 AM   #3
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
You can if the tweeter can handle the extra work. A waveguide doesn't load a driver much toward 1kHz.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2015, 08:16 AM   #4
s3tup is offline s3tup
diyAudio Member
 
s3tup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Israel
No problem at all, as long as the excursion is kept within reasonable THD.
1. The horn rises the frequency response at the tune frequency. You get a big hump.
2. The excursion of tweeter in (1) is the same as without horn.
3. To get flat frequency response, you need to flatten-out the hump you've got in (1), thus reducing applied power to tweeter at the frequency of interest, thus lowering it's excursion at horn's hump frequency.
This way you get much less excursion compared to the tweeter without horn. This leads into much better distortion figures, less excursion, so you are able to use lower cut-off point.
__________________
xdxd.io - software audio analyzer, crossover studio
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2015, 09:33 AM   #5
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
R.I.P.
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Scottish Borders
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
where should these google links be taking me?

I am getting sent to a Google input screen asking me for personal information that Google will probably share with millions of others !
__________________
regards Andrew T.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2015, 01:33 PM   #6
Charles Darwin is offline Charles Darwin  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Birmingham, UK
Yes you can get away with it but Amphion is probably not the best example of getting it right.
A canadian research institute measured them and found 10% THD from the midwoofer and Which Hifi magazine in the UK described their sound as 'disjointed'.
Nevertheless they somehow became the latest flavour of the month, due to celebrity endorsement I suspect.
I believe an all round superior version of practically the same is this Visaton kit:
STUDIO 2
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2015, 06:07 PM   #7
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: US
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewT View Post
where should these google links be taking me?

I am getting sent to a Google input screen asking me for personal information that Google will probably share with millions of others !
I get the same thing when I haven't cleared my browser's cache.. I shut it down and use CCleaner to clean things up, then go back to the link and it should work.

It's Dave's measurements from various waveguide projects.

Here is Dave's commercial site:

acoustic waveguides
__________________
perspective is everything
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2015, 11:27 PM   #8
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
-as far as power input/distortion/etc..
Is this for an elliptical waveguide truncated for a flat baffle?

I can't see it either, I think google is limiting views to force more people to join them.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th May 2015, 12:21 AM   #9
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: US
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
Is this for an elliptical waveguide truncated for a flat baffle?

I can't see it either, I think google is limiting views to force more people to join them.
All waveguides for different drivers.

Specifically a few ellipticals for the AC (Aurum Cantus) AST2560

Hmm, lets try this again:

https://plus.google.com/101632266659473725850/posts

That worked for me.. but you'll need to click on "photos" for the listing with the AST2560
__________________
perspective is everything
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2016, 07:53 PM   #10
youknowyou is offline youknowyou  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
youknowyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
Yes you can get away with it but Amphion is probably not the best example of getting it right.
A canadian research institute measured them and found 10% THD from the midwoofer and Which Hifi magazine in the UK described their sound as 'disjointed'.
Nevertheless they somehow became the latest flavour of the month, due to celebrity endorsement I suspect.
I believe an all round superior version of practically the same is this Visaton kit:
STUDIO 2
your talking about another model of old amphion which use a 4inch midwoofer, the ion+ http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index

the pro15 use a 5 inch and pro18 use 6.5 inch
op talks about the pro line not the ion which do measure bad.
how do u figure the visaton studio kit is the same as amphion!? lol celebrity endorsement! lol.

the pro line is not even 1% distortion.
look the new resolution magazine measurements http://www.amphion.fi/files/4914/504...ution_1215.pdf


op, the tweeter on amphion pro line is not available, they are built by amphion
__________________
Dad's speakers: Amphion one18/ Genelec 1037b/ ESL57/ Altec604/ Tannoy RED 15 inch/
Mine: Seas A26/ Harbeth P3ESR

Last edited by youknowyou; 6th February 2016 at 08:10 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


"ok" to use a tweeter lower than suggested with horn/waveguideHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Your favorite 1" CD/ Horn-waveguide combo? mayhem13 Multi-Way 3 16th April 2014 12:15 PM
Looking for a 17" x 7" Horn Tweeter Jampi Multi-Way 10 11th February 2014 08:57 PM
What CD+waveguide/horn with 12" midbass? Rojoh Multi-Way 9 9th May 2013 09:19 PM
Foster 025N03 Cast Aluminum Horn Tweeter 3" x 7-1/4" JohnGeneva Multi-Way 12 5th July 2012 03:07 AM
RSC (radio speakers canada) 15" woofer, 8" midwoofer, horn tweeter perceptionchanges Swap Meet 0 29th May 2010 08:18 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:46 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki