I'm thinking about building a custom open back cab for my guitar head as my first non-car audio project. It seems like PartsExpress should be able to provide me with everything I need from corners to laminate. However, I am still confused on what speakers to purchase. I want the cab to consist of two 12" speakers. I know Marshall, Mesa, Crate and many others choose Celestion G12's for their cabinets. Do the Celestions really sound any better than say a Pyle?
I noted that the specifications of the Celestion G12 is very similar to many other speakers sold by parts express. I want to build a cab that sounds good but don't really want to pay for name brand speakers if something cheaper will sound just as good. Anyone have any suggestions or experience.
Additionally, is there any noticeable difference in the sound quality of two 4 ohm speakers wired in series...versus...two 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel assuming the the rest of the specs for the speakers are consistent?
Thanks.
I noted that the specifications of the Celestion G12 is very similar to many other speakers sold by parts express. I want to build a cab that sounds good but don't really want to pay for name brand speakers if something cheaper will sound just as good. Anyone have any suggestions or experience.
Additionally, is there any noticeable difference in the sound quality of two 4 ohm speakers wired in series...versus...two 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel assuming the the rest of the specs for the speakers are consistent?
Thanks.
newbie1 said:
1) The speaker in a guitar amp imparts a significant portion of the characteristic tone to the amp (the exception being the DSP amps). So yes, all the speakers sound different.
2) What's your budget and equipment like? Do you have a Les Paul Custom into a Marshall head? Then use Celestions. Do you have a Squier Strat into a transistor amp? Then use Eminence.
2) Jimi Hendrix turned over in his grave when you used Celestion and Pyle in the same sentence.
Guitar speakers cannot be judged by their parameters at all.
I'll just note that for an open backed cabinet the drivers with
Fs of around 100Hz and a Q of around 1.1 are the ones to go
for, the lower Fs and Q's suiting sealed cabinets.
Guitar speakers are about tone and progressive distortion.
Eminence are very good value, generally with guitar speakers
you get what you pay for, but making the correct choice of
the type of guitar speaker tonally to suit you is paramount.
sreten.
I'll just note that for an open backed cabinet the drivers with
Fs of around 100Hz and a Q of around 1.1 are the ones to go
for, the lower Fs and Q's suiting sealed cabinets.
Guitar speakers are about tone and progressive distortion.
Eminence are very good value, generally with guitar speakers
you get what you pay for, but making the correct choice of
the type of guitar speaker tonally to suit you is paramount.
sreten.Here are a few links with sound samples from different guitar speakers:
http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/tone/index.html
http://www.proguitar.de/AudioDemo/CompareSpeaker/CompareSpeaker.html
It's quite easy to hear the difference
http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/tone/index.html
http://www.proguitar.de/AudioDemo/CompareSpeaker/CompareSpeaker.html
It's quite easy to hear the difference
reply
I've got a pair of Celestion Greenback G12S 16 0hm each,20w rms each out of a broken valve Selmer guitar combo amp my Uncle gave me.
Tried them in the original cabinet [2x 12 inch vented] and I don't know what makes the speaker sound this way but it has an unique sound to it when used with my mates Marshall valve head. 
Just wonder if there is any difference between the greenback G12S [which ive got] and the G12M they have nowadays???
I've got a pair of Celestion Greenback G12S 16 0hm each,20w rms each out of a broken valve Selmer guitar combo amp my Uncle gave me.
Tried them in the original cabinet [2x 12 inch vented] and I don't know what makes the speaker sound this way but it has an unique sound to it when used with my mates Marshall valve head.
Just wonder if there is any difference between the greenback G12S [which ive got] and the G12M they have nowadays???
Thanks to all that replied. I have decided to go with 2 Eminence Legend M12 (16 ohm) speakers as this cab will be used for rock/metal.
Can anyone provide some advice on the type of wood? I orginally planned on using 1/2" MDF but after talking to the owner of a local guitar store he told me that a lot of cab manufactuers are going with Plywood instead of MDF. I would think that MDF would have less overall resonance and accent the lower frequencies more than Plywood...any suggestions?
Thanks.
Can anyone provide some advice on the type of wood? I orginally planned on using 1/2" MDF but after talking to the owner of a local guitar store he told me that a lot of cab manufactuers are going with Plywood instead of MDF. I would think that MDF would have less overall resonance and accent the lower frequencies more than Plywood...any suggestions?
Thanks.
Variac said:
That may be true. However, I plan to apply either laminate or carpet as well as metal corners to the cabinet to protect it. So hopefully it won't be destroyed in a month. Anyhow, I just wanted to know what material would provide better overall sound quality for an open back cabinet.
newbie1 said:
As your covering it Spruce plywood is the best material, strength to
weight ratio, marine ply is heavier and not worth the price premium.
I'd say 1/2" is not enough you should go to 3/4" (18mm).
Strength is about the drop test. Inset the front baffle at least
an inch. Even with an open back cabinet you should use back
sections for strength, suggest 3" sections top and bottom.
A 3" vertical baffle brace between the drivers is also a good idea.
MDF and Chipboard are no good in this application. Heavy
and with poor corner glueing strength compared to plywood.
Finally I suspect Spruce plywood will have the best sound.
(Soundwise solid timber is probably best, but not remotely
practical, block/ramin board will sound better than ply
correctly aligned, but all these differences are subtle.)
sreten.
usekgb said:
baltic birch plywood = marine plywood and is the strongest plywood.
Spruce plywood is typically used for house buiding, its not
as strong as marine ply but it is also quite a bit lighter.
Surface finish and voids of spruce is much poorer than birch.
But it is a lot cheaper and has a higher strength/weight ratio.
IMO if covered 1" spruce ply is better than 3/4" marine ply.
sreten.speakers
Thanks to all that replied. I have decided to go with 2 Eminence Legend M12 (16 ohm) speakers as this cab will be used for rock/metal.
man i hope your not trying to get alot of tone from those,they came in my little fender amp.they lack a lot in sound quality.
i replaced it with a webber and now i rarely play my carvin with
greenbacks anymore.
read some reviews and you`ll see that mojo and alot of others low dollar speakers are rated way over eminence.
thats just my 2cents worth.
i`ve got 1 laying around with about 15hrs on it if your interested.
Thanks to all that replied. I have decided to go with 2 Eminence Legend M12 (16 ohm) speakers as this cab will be used for rock/metal.
man i hope your not trying to get alot of tone from those,they came in my little fender amp.they lack a lot in sound quality.
i replaced it with a webber and now i rarely play my carvin with
greenbacks anymore.
read some reviews and you`ll see that mojo and alot of others low dollar speakers are rated way over eminence.
thats just my 2cents worth.
i`ve got 1 laying around with about 15hrs on it if your interested.
Re: speakers
Great! Now you tell me...after I have already ordered them. LOL. I did see some mixed reviews on the M12's, mostly that they were on the bright side and didn't handle bass as well as the V12's. Anyhow I picked up two for $65...hard to beat that price. I was actually looking at Weber too. Oh, well if these Eminence speakers turn out to be crappy, I'll replace them with some Weber Blue Dog's.
I'll go the plywood route too for the cab. Thanks for all the input from everyone.
offroadbum said:
Great! Now you tell me...after I have already ordered them. LOL. I did see some mixed reviews on the M12's, mostly that they were on the bright side and didn't handle bass as well as the V12's. Anyhow I picked up two for $65...hard to beat that price. I was actually looking at Weber too. Oh, well if these Eminence speakers turn out to be crappy, I'll replace them with some Weber Blue Dog's.
I'll go the plywood route too for the cab. Thanks for all the input from everyone.
Why do you say this ?
100Hz is almost exactly the fundamental pitch of the low G note at 3rd fret on E string, and with a Q around 1.1 there will be excess emphasis of that G note versus other bass notes' fundamentals - especially for pitches below the Fs, and especially for the lower open E which will not play with sufficient definition of its fundamental.
I have played through various different guitar speakers and always hated the unbalanced effects in the low end of the type you have described, as to get any balance at all across the low notes one has to roll-off much of the bass tone control.
To get balanced bass response across the low notes the Fs needs to be below the fundamental pitch of the lowest note one intends to play - usually the open E at about 82Hz.
The original famous Celestions were available in two versions - with a 55Hz Fs or with a 75Hz Fs.
I still own some of the 75Hz G12M Greenbacks and these work fine in an open back cabinet -{when one does not exceed their power rating}- and in a closed back Quad box where the in-box Fo will be above 82Hz, however the cabinet's baffle and back panel resonating tend to even out the bass response to some degree across most of the notes - this is probably the reason most electric guitarists prefer cabinets with the thinner resonant panels than the stiffer panel types.
Yes there are many guitar speakers with Fs higher than 80Hz in pitch, and various players like some of them for various reasons other than bass response, but Celestion's recent biggest selling models - G12T-75 and Vintage 30 - are both 75Hz Fs.
regards,
sreten said:
I'll just note that for an open backed cabinet the drivers with
Fs of around 100Hz and a Q of around 1.1 are the ones to go
for, the lower Fs and Q's suiting sealed cabinets.
100Hz is almost exactly the fundamental pitch of the low G note at 3rd fret on E string, and with a Q around 1.1 there will be excess emphasis of that G note versus other bass notes' fundamentals - especially for pitches below the Fs, and especially for the lower open E which will not play with sufficient definition of its fundamental.
I have played through various different guitar speakers and always hated the unbalanced effects in the low end of the type you have described, as to get any balance at all across the low notes one has to roll-off much of the bass tone control.
To get balanced bass response across the low notes the Fs needs to be below the fundamental pitch of the lowest note one intends to play - usually the open E at about 82Hz.
The original famous Celestions were available in two versions - with a 55Hz Fs or with a 75Hz Fs.
I still own some of the 75Hz G12M Greenbacks and these work fine in an open back cabinet -{when one does not exceed their power rating}- and in a closed back Quad box where the in-box Fo will be above 82Hz, however the cabinet's baffle and back panel resonating tend to even out the bass response to some degree across most of the notes - this is probably the reason most electric guitarists prefer cabinets with the thinner resonant panels than the stiffer panel types.
Yes there are many guitar speakers with Fs higher than 80Hz in pitch, and various players like some of them for various reasons other than bass response, but Celestion's recent biggest selling models - G12T-75 and Vintage 30 - are both 75Hz Fs.
regards,
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