im planning to buy a 3 way kit from intertechnik (first time 11) Ft11 - Mai 2012 - Loudspeakermagazine 2012 | Loudspeakerbuilding
i find the price per speaker (180 euro) suited to my budget -the brand of the drivers is gradient select. i never heard of them - i also cant find much info on the web besides various german, dutch and more european diy shops are selling their gear.from the driver tests i seen on intertechnik they do not look bad at all. intertechnik seems to be using this brand in various of their kits.
has anyone here any info on them?
is this brand any good?
i find the price per speaker (180 euro) suited to my budget -the brand of the drivers is gradient select. i never heard of them - i also cant find much info on the web besides various german, dutch and more european diy shops are selling their gear.from the driver tests i seen on intertechnik they do not look bad at all. intertechnik seems to be using this brand in various of their kits.
has anyone here any info on them?
is this brand any good?
Hi,
Whilst I'd like to say nice things about the design,
I can only advise caution, the mid driver has serious
issues at 4KHz which make is a bit of a nightmare.
I wouldn't go near it for that reason.
Cheaper brands are simply less reliable. Some drivers
can be decent, some can be awful, and some can be
be rare gems, very high value stars, only because
they are cheap and essentially don't do it wrong.
rgds, sreten.
The german speaking market has its own brands,
however I see some similarities with MCM offerings,
PE's GRS brand, all are Chinese/Asian sourced.
Whilst I'd like to say nice things about the design,
I can only advise caution, the mid driver has serious
issues at 4KHz which make is a bit of a nightmare.
I wouldn't go near it for that reason.
Cheaper brands are simply less reliable. Some drivers
can be decent, some can be awful, and some can be
be rare gems, very high value stars, only because
they are cheap and essentially don't do it wrong.
rgds, sreten.
The german speaking market has its own brands,
however I see some similarities with MCM offerings,
PE's GRS brand, all are Chinese/Asian sourced.
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Must agree with Sreten, that mid driver is a call for trouble... anything with those peaks and dips in its response indicates serious cone breakup, and/or edge termination problems. Basically whatever you do with them in the XO, it will "come through" and screw up the sound. There are some very good mid drivers out there in the same price range, check out SB Acoustic, Peerless, Audax dealers for something better. Even the woofer is suspect with its nearly 10 dB peak at 3.5k.... I have serious doubts that with the recommended crossover schematic -without resonance controlling elements- it will yield the overall response and waterfall plots published there.
hi guys 
thanks for your answers
in german diy forums they say it might not be an high end brand but they are very good for their price.
this is the measurements of the finished build. the peaks and valleys 3k to 4k are only a few dB (2db to 3db) if its even noticeable i would use my studio 31 band equalizers to adjust it.
i have finally been reading german forums (takes time since my german is quite bad - its been about 25 years since i studied it lol) and i can not find any negative information regarding the gradient brand (which also finally seems to be intertechniks own brand). also this specific build has gotten a lot of good critic but no bad critic at all. so in the end i feel confident about continuing with my plan.
FirstTime 11 als ein Standlautsprecher, Lautsprecher - HIFI-FORUM
thanks for your answersin german diy forums they say it might not be an high end brand but they are very good for their price.
this is the measurements of the finished build. the peaks and valleys 3k to 4k are only a few dB (2db to 3db) if its even noticeable i would use my studio 31 band equalizers to adjust it.
i have finally been reading german forums (takes time since my german is quite bad - its been about 25 years since i studied it lol) and i can not find any negative information regarding the gradient brand (which also finally seems to be intertechniks own brand). also this specific build has gotten a lot of good critic but no bad critic at all. so in the end i feel confident about continuing with my plan.
FirstTime 11 als ein Standlautsprecher, Lautsprecher - HIFI-FORUM
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Hi,
As dragonweed stated the published waterfalls are highly
dubious, I suspect some octave smoothing is going on.
The published FR and individual driver curves do show some
serious problems, it is best not to bury your head in the sand.
Whist I agree it's fairly cheap for five unit speakers, you be
better off with a 3 way with better drivers, the general
and critical midrange area 1KHz to 5KHz is a mess.
Vertical (especially) and horizontal dispersion will not be pretty.
You may have heard of NIHS, not invented here syndrome,
there is also IHS, invented here syndrome, caveat emptor.
rgds, sreten.
As dragonweed stated the published waterfalls are highly
dubious, I suspect some octave smoothing is going on.
The published FR and individual driver curves do show some
serious problems, it is best not to bury your head in the sand.
Whist I agree it's fairly cheap for five unit speakers, you be
better off with a 3 way with better drivers, the general
and critical midrange area 1KHz to 5KHz is a mess.
Vertical (especially) and horizontal dispersion will not be pretty.
You may have heard of NIHS, not invented here syndrome,
there is also IHS, invented here syndrome, caveat emptor.
rgds, sreten.
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i see your points, and this is why i asked here if anyone had any personal experiences with this brand. im of suspicious nature my self. i have spent more than a month researching this project (looking on all imaginable european forums for builds done by other people, i even did a winisd sim of the drivers.).
im on a budget and i really am not going to throw my money into something without putting a lot of thought into it.
i really couldnt find any other kit in the price-range of my budget that i liked. i looked at many. (strassacker and intertechnique).
im now googling for more sites for speaker kits in europe..
since i havent ordered yet i guess its not too late to change my mind. so i will look at other alternatives. i need the speakers to be big loud.
im on a budget and i really am not going to throw my money into something without putting a lot of thought into it.
i really couldnt find any other kit in the price-range of my budget that i liked. i looked at many. (strassacker and intertechnique).
im now googling for more sites for speaker kits in europe..
since i havent ordered yet i guess its not too late to change my mind. so i will look at other alternatives. i need the speakers to be big loud.
if you can locate these parts
this may be better from a non-sales driven perspective https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/tarkus
this may be better from a non-sales driven perspective https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/tarkus
ooh... yeah... no. I was going to try and play devils advocate and argue the advantages of this kit, but the more I look the more I want to look away.. I just wouldn't touch it.
180 EUR without cabinet is a reasonable amount, maybe a TWW 2 way with 6.5" woofers would offer you a better solution for sound quality and value?
(as always I'm thinking of SB acoustics drivers but sure others could make recommendations)
180 EUR without cabinet is a reasonable amount, maybe a TWW 2 way with 6.5" woofers would offer you a better solution for sound quality and value?
(as always I'm thinking of SB acoustics drivers but sure others could make recommendations)
Hi,
Look at :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/tarkus
By definition, big and loud and cheap means your
giving up quality for a more difficult build and SPL.
The problem is not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Big and loud is fine running a sound system, but at home
90% of the time its simply not needed, unless a big room.
rgds, sreten.
Look at :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/tarkus
By definition, big and loud and cheap means your
giving up quality for a more difficult build and SPL.
The problem is not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Big and loud is fine running a sound system, but at home
90% of the time its simply not needed, unless a big room.
rgds, sreten.
One thing to note. The peaks in the response curve are not the problem. They are an indication of a problem, and that problem is resonance. You can equalize a peak in response, but you can't equalize resonance.
\
This is something that's not always understood, and I apologize if this is something you already understand. . .
\
This is something that's not always understood, and I apologize if this is something you already understand. . .
sreten - i have a BIG house with an open distribution (the floor these speakers are going (1st floor) is about 120m2). i need a loud equipment i already have a rack with gear. also i got 4x 12" closed subs that need a potent pair of speakers to make them company. and i want big speakers since i got burgled a few years ago and i want to make sure the speakers are too heavy to carry away - since last attempt they couldnt lift my subs )
jplesset - i see your point. you are refering to resonances of the driver.
)jplesset - i see your point. you are refering to resonances of the driver.
i found this with visaton drivers. it is only 20 euro more per speaker. is visaton better brand? the frequency chart looks a lot better. but to me it looks like they cant handle a lot of power also they dont look too extremely efficient?
https://www.hifisound.de/en/Do-it-y...TON-ALTO-3-C-SPEAKER-KIT-WITHOUT-CABINET.html
ALTO III C
also they dont look too extremely efficient?https://www.hifisound.de/en/Do-it-y...TON-ALTO-3-C-SPEAKER-KIT-WITHOUT-CABINET.html
ALTO III C
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the tarkus looks interesting. the peerless drivers are not too expensive. the crossover is going to be more complicated for me with my limited knowledge. they look very interesting.
edit .- i saw now its 106 dB at 75 W - that is pretty loud. the amp i have for this project is 2x220 at 4ohm should be plenty of headroom.
edit .- i saw now its 106 dB at 75 W - that is pretty loud. the amp i have for this project is 2x220 at 4ohm should be plenty of headroom.
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