Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Sealed enclosures for my AE TD12s & AE TD6m
Sealed enclosures for my AE TD12s & AE TD6m
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 29th January 2015, 12:19 AM   #1
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: USA
Default Sealed enclosures for my AE TD12s & AE TD6m

[B][UR

Last edited by Fkeller; 26th April 2017 at 04:15 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th January 2015, 10:29 AM   #2
Cousin Billy is offline Cousin Billy  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
I am hopeful you get a lot of information.

I have a pair of TD15H+ and TD6M's coming shortly. Answers here will save me from asking them later.

For the TD6M, 0.15cf or smaller is ideal. John from AE and I both like Roxul insulation for dampening/absorbing the internal waves. I use the green colored insulation you would use in walls to soundproof from neighboring rooms. Yes you have to buy a large bag, with 95% left over at the end.

Remember that sound absorption sometimes tricks the driver into behaving as if it's in a larger enclosure. With the TD6M you might get a hump lower down. So make sure your enclosure is small.

Remember to chamfer the inside edge of where the driver is mounted. The magnet assembly is wide, and you need to allow the backwave room to breath.

The less square the inside enclosure walls the better.

It will be interesting to see how the TD6M behave approaching 3000Hz.

For the TD12S I can give no advice. I too like sealed enclosures, but they do need a lot of power to get low. Your 800W should do fine.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th January 2015, 03:49 PM   #3
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: USA
Ok, now were getting started please chime in gurus. I really need your help. I look at this forum as going back to school. It's time to get educated in DIY. Thanks
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th January 2015, 09:04 PM   #4
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
diyAudio Member
 
LineSource's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SiliconValley
Using the TD12S woofer T/S parameters from the AES website I ran both sealed and ported box alignments.

WinISD simulation for the TD12S shows F3~69Hz in a 1.72f^3 SEALED Qtc=0.7 box volume.
WinISD simulation for the TD12S shows F3~56Hz in a 3.15f^3 SEALED Qtc=0.577 box volume.
WinISD simulation for the TD12S shows F3~48Hz in a 5.30f^3 SEALED Qtc=0.5 box volume.
WinISD simulation for the TD12S shows F3~37Hz in a 2.9f^3 PORTED box volume.

--A sealed box alignment will require substantial equalization to reach 30Hz bass...attached
--You could build a 3cuft PORTED box and plug the port for Qtc=0.577 SEALED. Flexible options.


Using the TD6M midrange T/S parameters from the AES website I ran three different SEALED box volumes which illustrate the SPL/freq shape for:

Qtc = 0.7 Maximal flat Butterworth alignment 0.18f^3 F3~152Hz
Qtc = 0.577 Minimal ripple Bessel alignment 0.37f^3 F3~122Hz
Qtc = 0.5 Critically Damped alignment 0.76f^3 F3~104Hz

The Qtc=0.7 is the most common because it simplifies Butterworth and LR crossover slopes, and also blends with the efficient Qtc=0.7 woofer alignment. You can hear a difference if you experiment with box volume during your build.

Hope this data helps your design work.

Building an attractive TMW cabinet with a 12" woofer will be a challenge. FAT BOTTOM
Do you have any early cabinet sketch ideas?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TD12S Port SealedAlignments.JPG (281.8 KB, 415 views)
File Type: jpg TD12S 30Hz LinkwitzTransform.JPG (255.1 KB, 402 views)
File Type: jpg TD12S 30Hz Transform Power.JPG (253.9 KB, 151 views)
File Type: jpg TD6M alignments.JPG (268.4 KB, 145 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th January 2015, 09:52 PM   #5
45 is offline 45  Italy
diyAudio Member
 
45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fkeller View Post
My Adcom GFA-565 mono blocks are about 380 real high current watts each dampening factor is 1000. I also have a pair of Altec 9440A amps which are 800 real watts brided mono into 8 ohms with a dampening factor of 800.Thanks PS if the AE TD12S in not capable of reaching 40hz with authority I have a pair of dayton audio RSS315HFA-8 subs that I use for the low end say 60-80hz down. Your opinions please. Thanks again.
Sadly, the very low Zout of your amps makes the TD12S not really suitable for a sealed box speaker. You could make a proper sealed box using a tube amp with Zout around 3 ohm (it should be some 3.81f^3 for F3 = 45 Hz and Qt=0.79). Forget the term damping factor, there is nothing to damp. It's all about correct alignment.
As suggested by LineSource, I think a ported box is better in your case.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2015, 03:32 AM   #6
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: USA
Smile Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fkeller View Post
Sealed enclosures for my AE TD12s & AE TD6m

An externally hosted image should be here but it no longer works. Please upload images instead of linking to them to prevent this.
by dj sugafree Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:08 pm
Hello friends, my name is DJ Sugafree. I purchased a pr of TD12S and a pr. of TD6M transducers. I am requesting help with the enclosure for each speaker I really prefer sealed enclosures for tight, deep, and musical bass. My goal is to build the best 3 way possible. My tweeter is the Audax TW025A20 1" metal dome. All three speakers are of 93db 1watt at 1 meter. My thoughts are to run the TD12S woofers from 40hz to 320-400hz crossed over to the TD6M form 320-400hz to 2500-2860hz crossed to the Audax tweeter at 2500-2860hz and up. My thinking is that each speaker should only cover about 3 octaves. I would like to pick the brains of you more experienced DIY guys on size and shape (how deep should to eliminate the standing wave & should it be rectangle or curved going back) of the enclosures that would work best to get the desired performance that is expected from AE speakers. I already have baltic birch plywood and MFD, rockwool, tight bond glue, Dynamat barrier dampening, & quiet kote spray from my last build. I have a minidsp 4x10HD with the mic and 4x10 plug in. I will be tri-amping the whole system. I have high current Adcom solid state amps gfa-565 mono pair for the woofers, gfa-555 stereo for the mids, & a gfa-535II for the tweeters all of which have the elite mods & upgraded by Big Sky Audio LLP & I also have a pair of Will Vincent's super dyna MKIII built tube amps for the mids if needed. My Pre-amp is the Mcintosh C-500 solid state version. I am running two dedicated lines to my 2 channel room etc... So what i'm trying to say is I am pretty versatile when it comes to amplification. I just want to be able to represent Acoustic Elegance speakers in a world class way. I have a lot of Altec and Klipsch fans here in Oklahoma that think I waste my money on AE speakers. LETS SHOW THEM! Thanks to all that contributes to this project. Thanks again.
An externally hosted image should be here but it no longer works. Please upload images instead of linking to them to prevent this.
An externally hosted image should be here but it no longer works. Please upload images instead of linking to them to prevent this.
Also how would the apollo upgrage on the TD12S benefit me in my setup is it just the power compression since i'm running them up to about 400hz. My Adcom GFA-565 mono blocks are about 380 real high current watts each dampening factor is 1000. I also have a pair of Altec 9440A amps which are 800 real watts brided mono into 8 ohms with a dampening factor of 800.Thanks PS if the AE TD12S in not capable of reaching 40hz with authority I have a pair of dayton audio RSS315HFA-8 subs that I use for the low end say 60-80hz down. Your opinions please. Thanks again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LineSource View Post
Using the TD12S woofer T/S parameters from the AES website I ran both sealed and ported box alignments.

WinISD simulation for the TD12S shows F3~69Hz in a 1.72f^3 SEALED Qtc=0.7 box volume.
WinISD simulation for the TD12S shows F3~56Hz in a 3.15f^3 SEALED Qtc=0.577 box volume.
WinISD simulation for the TD12S shows F3~48Hz in a 5.30f^3 SEALED Qtc=0.5 box volume.
WinISD simulation for the TD12S shows F3~37Hz in a 2.9f^3 PORTED box volume.

--A sealed box alignment will require substantial equalization to reach 30Hz bass...attached
--You could build a 3cuft PORTED box and plug the port for Qtc=0.577 SEALED. Flexible options.


Using the TD6M midrange T/S parameters from the AES website I ran three different SEALED box volumes which illustrate the SPL/freq shape for:

Qtc = 0.7 Maximal flat Butterworth alignment 0.18f^3 F3~152Hz
Qtc = 0.577 Minimal ripple Bessel alignment 0.37f^3 F3~122Hz
Qtc = 0.5 Critically Damped alignment 0.76f^3 F3~104Hz

The Qtc=0.7 is the most common because it simplifies Butterworth and LR crossover slopes, and also blends with the efficient Qtc=0.7 woofer alignment. You can hear a difference if you experiment with box volume during your build.

Hope this data helps your design work.

Building an attractive TMW cabinet with a 12" woofer will be a challenge. FAT BOTTOM
Do you have any early cabinet sketch ideas?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 45 View Post
Sadly, the very low Zout of your amps makes the TD12S not really suitable for a sealed box speaker. You could make a proper sealed box using a tube amp with Zout around 3 ohm (it should be some 3.81f^3 for F3 = 45 Hz and Qt=0.79). Forget the term damping factor, there is nothing to damp. It's all about correct alignment.
As suggested by LineSource, I think a ported box is better in your case.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2015, 03:52 AM   #7
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: USA
Smile 2.9 cu ft ported

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fkeller View Post
Ok, now were getting started please chime in gurus. I really need your help. I look at this forum as going back to school. It's time to get educated in DIY. Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by LineSource View Post
Using the TD12S woofer T/S parameters from the AES website I ran both sealed and ported box alignments.

WinISD simulation for the TD12S shows F3~69Hz in a 1.72f^3 SEALED Qtc=0.7 box volume.
WinISD simulation for the TD12S shows F3~56Hz in a 3.15f^3 SEALED Qtc=0.577 box volume.
WinISD simulation for the TD12S shows F3~48Hz in a 5.30f^3 SEALED Qtc=0.5 box volume.
WinISD simulation for the TD12S shows F3~37Hz in a 2.9f^3 PORTED box volume.

--A sealed box alignment will require substantial equalization to reach 30Hz bass...attached
--You could build a 3cuft PORTED box and plug the port for Qtc=0.577 SEALED. Flexible options.


Using the TD6M midrange T/S parameters from the AES website I ran three different SEALED box volumes which illustrate the SPL/freq shape for:

Qtc = 0.7 Maximal flat Butterworth alignment 0.18f^3 F3~152Hz
Qtc = 0.577 Minimal ripple Bessel alignment 0.37f^3 F3~122Hz
Qtc = 0.5 Critically Damped alignment 0.76f^3 F3~104Hz

The Qtc=0.7 is the most common because it simplifies Butterworth and LR crossover slopes, and also blends with the efficient Qtc=0.7 woofer alignment. You can hear a difference if you experiment with box volume during your build.

Hope this data helps your design work.

Building an attractive TMW cabinet with a 12" woofer will be a challenge. FAT BOTTOM
Do you have any early cabinet sketch ideas?
Not at this time. I am thinking more and more about doing a 2.9 cu ft ported. Looks like it would make more since, that way I could go back and forth between ported and pluging the port. What type of port do you recommend slot or tube type. Your knowledge is deeply appreciated. Thanks please help me out my friend.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2015, 03:57 AM   #8
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: USA
Thanks to all, I am wondering what is the advantages & disadvantages to going ported instead of sealed if there is any. My adcom mono amps that will be driving the woofers are rated at 300 wpc and spec out at 370 wpc. please chime in. Thanks again.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2015, 03:59 AM   #9
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: USA
Smile cabinets sketches

Quote:
Originally Posted by LineSource View Post
Using the TD12S woofer T/S parameters from the AES website I ran both sealed and ported box alignments.

WinISD simulation for the TD12S shows F3~69Hz in a 1.72f^3 SEALED Qtc=0.7 box volume.
WinISD simulation for the TD12S shows F3~56Hz in a 3.15f^3 SEALED Qtc=0.577 box volume.
WinISD simulation for the TD12S shows F3~48Hz in a 5.30f^3 SEALED Qtc=0.5 box volume.
WinISD simulation for the TD12S shows F3~37Hz in a 2.9f^3 PORTED box volume.

--A sealed box alignment will require substantial equalization to reach 30Hz bass...attached
--You could build a 3cuft PORTED box and plug the port for Qtc=0.577 SEALED. Flexible options.


Using the TD6M midrange T/S parameters from the AES website I ran three different SEALED box volumes which illustrate the SPL/freq shape for:

Qtc = 0.7 Maximal flat Butterworth alignment 0.18f^3 F3~152Hz
Qtc = 0.577 Minimal ripple Bessel alignment 0.37f^3 F3~122Hz
Qtc = 0.5 Critically Damped alignment 0.76f^3 F3~104Hz

The Qtc=0.7 is the most common because it simplifies Butterworth and LR crossover slopes, and also blends with the efficient Qtc=0.7 woofer alignment. You can hear a difference if you experiment with box volume during your build.

Hope this data helps your design work.

Building an attractive TMW cabinet with a 12" woofer will be a challenge. FAT BOTTOM
Do you have any early cabinet sketch ideas?
No some ideas on cabinet design and sketches are deeply appreciated.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2015, 02:44 PM   #10
Cousin Billy is offline Cousin Billy  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
I'm kind of hoping you experiment and report back.

I will start my build with a slot port. According to John at AE, this yields better results than round ports.

As I said previously, I too am a sealed enclosure listener. If my slot port doesn't work, dual passive radiators either side of the enclosure will be my next step.

If you go to Acoustic Elegance' website, they have a 'faq' on passive radiators. A common observation is that passive radiators 'sound' closer to a sealed enclosure alignment, I think.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 008.jpg (682.7 KB, 179 views)
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Sealed enclosures for my AE TD12s & AE TD6mHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Acoustic Energy AE109 & AE Centre drivers mds167 Multi-Way 4 16th February 2012 12:07 PM
Aurum Cantus AST 3130 + AE TD6M Zedguy Planars & Exotics 0 23rd December 2011 05:45 PM
Speaker project (AE & Newform Reasearch drivers) Reinyn Swap Meet 2 7th November 2011 02:10 PM
AE TD6M - Experiences? Sveinung Multi-Way 21 7th April 2011 04:41 AM
UK: AE(Stryke) AV15 mk2 & BK 500w Panel Amp ShinOBIWAN Swap Meet 11 15th May 2006 01:14 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:09 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2018 diyAudio
Wiki