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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Sealed enclosures for my AE TD12s & AE TD6m
Sealed enclosures for my AE TD12s & AE TD6m
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Old 6th February 2015, 04:25 AM   #21
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: USA
Default which cabinet is best for my speakers?

Jenzen ATS 3-way

What do you experts think about this design for a room about 14' X 20' in size.
PS: What changes would you make the this. Should I make the edges of the woofer enclosure the same as the mid to offset the baffle step issue.
Also should I make it a sealed woofer enclosure or stay with the ported. If I went sealed I could let my pair of Dayton Audio RSS315HFA-8 subs handle 60-70hz & down. Thanks for your input. I like the high tech look of these cabinets. Please chime in and try to find ways to improve on this design for my speakers. Thanks again.
My friend will do the CNC MACHINE WORK and another friend that does most of the custom auto prep and painting here in Oklahoma City for over 30 years will prep and paint the cabs high gloss "Piano Black" with like 7 or more coats.

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CABINET DAMPING
Following the kit is 2 sqm of ~8 mm grey felt and 1.5 sqm 30 mm acoustilux.


Bass cabs:

Bass cabs are added felt on all internal panels except front and bracings. At bottom 2 layers of 30 mm acoustilux.
Two rolls of 30 mm acoustilux is placed as seen on drawing.


Mid cabs:
All internal panels are added 4 mm bitumen pads glued with elastic vinyl glue. Be generous with the glue.
All internal panels further added ~8 mm grey felt.
A roll of acoustilux is placed below port, dimension 25 x 30 cm.

Bitumen pads can be ordered at Jantzen Audio too. Use 2 layers of 2 mm bitumen pads, "panel STANDARD". Be prepared for some additional shipping weight. Order 1 sqm for two mid cabs.

Bitumen pads are not needed for the bass cab due to extensive bracing.
I WOULD ADJUST THE VOL OF EACH CHAMBER TO ACOMADATE THE AE TD6M & TD12S.

OR IS THIS A BETTER DESIGN

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THANKS FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION!

Last edited by Fkeller; 6th February 2015 at 04:43 AM.
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Old 6th February 2015, 06:12 AM   #22
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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Location: SiliconValley
On the Jenzen ATS, if you use MiniDSP for the crossover and room equalization, you can obtain better polar response and reduced diffraction if you simplified the TM top. Adding round-overs on the woofer box edges would reduce diffraction, even with a 200Hz Xover. Style vs. Performance.

On the Jenzen ATS, the mid cabs hold an aperiodic tuning from having stuffed vents on the rear panel. Personally, I would only use a sealed box for the TD6M because of its T/S parameters(Fs = 83 with Qts=0.4 on TD6M vs. Fs=27 with Qts=0.23 on the Skaaning mid).

The bracing and construction techniques used on the Jenzen ATS are excellent engineering. There is still engineering required to transfer the best Jenzen ATS ideas into an exceptional MiniDSP + TD12S + TD6M + AudaxDome
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Avalon.jpg (133.3 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg SR-2.jpg (59.2 KB, 55 views)
File Type: jpg TM MiniDSP.jpg (108.0 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg 5 Bads.jpg (85.7 KB, 58 views)
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Old 7th February 2015, 12:29 AM   #23
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: USA
Smile Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fkeller View Post
Jenzen ATS 3-way

What do you experts think about this design for a room about 14' X 20' in size.
PS: What changes would you make the this. Should I make the edges of the woofer enclosure the same as the mid to offset the baffle step issue.
Also should I make it a sealed woofer enclosure or stay with the ported. If I went sealed I could let my pair of Dayton Audio RSS315HFA-8 subs handle 60-70hz & down. Thanks for your input. I like the high tech look of these cabinets. Please chime in and try to find ways to improve on this design for my speakers. Thanks again.
My friend will do the CNC MACHINE WORK and another friend that does most of the custom auto prep and painting here in Oklahoma City for over 30 years will prep and paint the cabs high gloss "Piano Black" with like 7 or more coats.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.


Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

CABINET DAMPING
Following the kit is 2 sqm of ~8 mm grey felt and 1.5 sqm 30 mm acoustilux.


Bass cabs:

Bass cabs are added felt on all internal panels except front and bracings. At bottom 2 layers of 30 mm acoustilux.
Two rolls of 30 mm acoustilux is placed as seen on drawing.


Mid cabs:
All internal panels are added 4 mm bitumen pads glued with elastic vinyl glue. Be generous with the glue.
All internal panels further added ~8 mm grey felt.
A roll of acoustilux is placed below port, dimension 25 x 30 cm.

Bitumen pads can be ordered at Jantzen Audio too. Use 2 layers of 2 mm bitumen pads, "panel STANDARD". Be prepared for some additional shipping weight. Order 1 sqm for two mid cabs.

Bitumen pads are not needed for the bass cab due to extensive bracing.
I WOULD ADJUST THE VOL OF EACH CHAMBER TO ACOMADATE THE AE TD6M & TD12S.

OR IS THIS A BETTER DESIGN

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

THANKS FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION!
Thanks for your excellent advice this is what I mean by mods. This will help me so much. Thanks again. You right with so many mods there is not need to go through all the trouble of building an ATS. I will not build the ATS, to much work and not enough reward. This is the kind of advice i'm seeking.
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Old 7th February 2015, 12:49 AM   #24
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: USA
LineSource which design do you think is the best for my situation the Wilmslow Prestige or the Passlabs SR2. I can have any cabinet built. So out of all design possibilities which would you go with if it were you and building a cabinet wasn't a problem. It sounds like you have the expertise I am looking for on the project. Thanks my brother.
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Old 7th February 2015, 02:05 AM   #25
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
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Is this a better design?
Tony Gee Soup Ceramique MKII

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Old 7th February 2015, 04:11 AM   #26
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Smile Avalon Eidolon Diamond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fkeller View Post
Thanks for your excellent advice this is what I mean by mods. This will help me so much. Thanks again. You right with so many mods there is not need to go through all the trouble of building an ATS. I will not build the ATS, to much work and not enough reward. This is the kind of advice i'm seeking.
Does anyone have the cabinet plans for Avalon Eidolon Diamond loudspeaker. I think that this is the way I would like to go and modify for the AE TD speakers sealed or ported design. If they're are any negatives that you know of in build these using AE transducers please let me know before I start construction. Thanks your info is deeply appreciated.
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Last edited by Fkeller; 7th February 2015 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 7th February 2015, 08:28 PM   #27
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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Remember the "Indiana Jones and the Holy Grail" scene in the cave where Indy has to choose the correct cup to save his Father....
YOU must ... "Choose Wisely"
======
You will likely have to modify any design you find to fit the box volumes for your specific drivers. If you have settled on the Avalon style, it's time to create a CAD drawing for your drivers which the cabinet shop CNC can read. I gave you all the WinISD sim data you need. Study a few theads on cabinet bracing. Post your CAD design for peer review.
=====
=====
The Avalon Eidolon product uses an 11" woofer. It has a slanted baffle to provide some time alignment with passive crossovers. MiniDSP allows a superior imaging straight baffle.
=====
TonyG Soup Ceramique Avalon clone uses an 8" woofer.
=====
Avalon cut edges with all "nude" Baltic Birch with clear finish has a Euro-Tech look that some like.
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Old 8th February 2015, 03:22 AM   #28
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
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Default speaker type

Thanks LineSource I will make adjustments for my transducers. Thanks again you are really showing your skills.
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Old 8th February 2015, 10:53 AM   #29
Cousin Billy is offline Cousin Billy  Canada
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Join Date: Nov 2008
I am going to babble.

8 years ago I started down a path. My path started with Tony G's 'Humble Statement' speaker. Like Mr. Keller, I wanted to start at the top, build the best speaker in the world, and be done with it. Hmmmmmm!

Once my speaker was finished, I listened, and loved. I thought I was done.

But wait a second. What if I was to build the faceplate out of aluminum? What if I tried Roxul green fiberglass insulation instead that other stuff? What would happen if I rounded the edges even more? How would the Accuton Diamond Tweeter sound? How can I get punchier bass? What happens to the sound if I tweak the crossover this way? The list is endless.

I sold my first speaker, and built the second.

Number 8 will be started this spring.

DIY is a journey, not a destination.

You will learn more by what you don't like in your first build, than what you do like. You will take that knowledge, and you will build a better speaker. But it won't be better, it'll be worse, and again you will learn.

I envy you. It has taken me this long to try the Acoustic Elegance drivers. You are at this point 8 years sooner than me.

I will be using the AE drivers because I think they will work great in a series crossover'd speaker. I might be wrong, in which case I will again 'learn'.

Stop asking for advice. We all have our own ideas. You need to find out who you are, and what you like. Build one of Tony's or Troel's designs, it's a great place to start.

Remember, with the exception of your first child's birth, there is nothing more humbling than realizing that the speakers you've just spend months working on have been sanded by you to the point that it looks like the ocean on a windy day. Next step, go to DIY woodworking website. Where's my red wine?
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Old 10th February 2015, 04:29 AM   #30
Fkeller is offline Fkeller  United States
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Default Dayton audio RSS315HFA-8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fkeller View Post
Thanks LineSource I will make adjustments for my transducers. Thanks again you are really showing your skills.
Should I use the Dayton Ref RSS315HFA-8 ohm pair form say 60-70hz and down and make this project a 4-way since I already have them and the minidsp 4x10HD is a 4 way x-over. Also is it better to have them in the same speaker in their own sealed department just below the TD12S, or have them in their own enclosure in another location in the room where the bass is the most prominent. Pro & Cons. Thanks
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