Sealed enclosures for my AE TD12s & AE TD6m

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which cabinet is best for my speakers?

Jenzen ATS 3-way

What do you experts think about this design for a room about 14' X 20' in size.
PS: What changes would you make the this. Should I make the edges of the woofer enclosure the same as the mid to offset the baffle step issue.
Also should I make it a sealed woofer enclosure or stay with the ported. If I went sealed I could let my pair of Dayton Audio RSS315HFA-8 subs handle 60-70hz & down. Thanks for your input. I like the high tech look of these cabinets. Please chime in and try to find ways to improve on this design for my speakers. Thanks again.
My friend will do the CNC MACHINE WORK and another friend that does most of the custom auto prep and painting here in Oklahoma City for over 30 years will prep and paint the cabs high gloss "Piano Black" with like 7 or more coats.

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CABINET DAMPING
Following the kit is 2 sqm of ~8 mm grey felt and 1.5 sqm 30 mm acoustilux.


Bass cabs:

Bass cabs are added felt on all internal panels except front and bracings. At bottom 2 layers of 30 mm acoustilux.
Two rolls of 30 mm acoustilux is placed as seen on drawing.


Mid cabs:
All internal panels are added 4 mm bitumen pads glued with elastic vinyl glue. Be generous with the glue.
All internal panels further added ~8 mm grey felt.
A roll of acoustilux is placed below port, dimension 25 x 30 cm.

Bitumen pads can be ordered at Jantzen Audio too. Use 2 layers of 2 mm bitumen pads, "panel STANDARD". Be prepared for some additional shipping weight. Order 1 sqm for two mid cabs.

Bitumen pads are not needed for the bass cab due to extensive bracing.
I WOULD ADJUST THE VOL OF EACH CHAMBER TO ACOMADATE THE AE TD6M & TD12S.

OR IS THIS A BETTER DESIGN

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NEXT4-test-set-up.jpg


THANKS FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION!
 
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On the Jenzen ATS, if you use MiniDSP for the crossover and room equalization, you can obtain better polar response and reduced diffraction if you simplified the TM top. Adding round-overs on the woofer box edges would reduce diffraction, even with a 200Hz Xover. Style vs. Performance.

On the Jenzen ATS, the mid cabs hold an aperiodic tuning from having stuffed vents on the rear panel. Personally, I would only use a sealed box for the TD6M because of its T/S parameters(Fs = 83 with Qts=0.4 on TD6M vs. Fs=27 with Qts=0.23 on the Skaaning mid).

The bracing and construction techniques used on the Jenzen ATS are excellent engineering. There is still engineering required to transfer the best Jenzen ATS ideas into an exceptional MiniDSP + TD12S + TD6M + AudaxDome
 

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Thanks

Jenzen ATS 3-way

What do you experts think about this design for a room about 14' X 20' in size.
PS: What changes would you make the this. Should I make the edges of the woofer enclosure the same as the mid to offset the baffle step issue.
Also should I make it a sealed woofer enclosure or stay with the ported. If I went sealed I could let my pair of Dayton Audio RSS315HFA-8 subs handle 60-70hz & down. Thanks for your input. I like the high tech look of these cabinets. Please chime in and try to find ways to improve on this design for my speakers. Thanks again.
My friend will do the CNC MACHINE WORK and another friend that does most of the custom auto prep and painting here in Oklahoma City for over 30 years will prep and paint the cabs high gloss "Piano Black" with like 7 or more coats.

jenzen-ats-2-small.jpg


jenzen-ats-test-cabs-1.jpg


jenzen-ats-prototype-1.jpg



Jenzen-ATS-1-small.png


Jenzen-ATS-bass-cab-small.png


jenzen-ats-bass-cab-small-1.jpg


jenzen-ats-bass-cab-small-2.jpg


jenzen-ats-bass-cab-small-3.jpg


jenzen-ats-bass-cab-small-4.jpg


Jenzen-ATS-mid-tweeter-cab-2-small.png


jenzen-ats-bass-cab-damping-small.png


CABINET DAMPING
Following the kit is 2 sqm of ~8 mm grey felt and 1.5 sqm 30 mm acoustilux.


Bass cabs:

Bass cabs are added felt on all internal panels except front and bracings. At bottom 2 layers of 30 mm acoustilux.
Two rolls of 30 mm acoustilux is placed as seen on drawing.


Mid cabs:
All internal panels are added 4 mm bitumen pads glued with elastic vinyl glue. Be generous with the glue.
All internal panels further added ~8 mm grey felt.
A roll of acoustilux is placed below port, dimension 25 x 30 cm.

Bitumen pads can be ordered at Jantzen Audio too. Use 2 layers of 2 mm bitumen pads, "panel STANDARD". Be prepared for some additional shipping weight. Order 1 sqm for two mid cabs.

Bitumen pads are not needed for the bass cab due to extensive bracing.
I WOULD ADJUST THE VOL OF EACH CHAMBER TO ACOMADATE THE AE TD6M & TD12S.

OR IS THIS A BETTER DESIGN

1_next4_2_small.jpg


1_next4_5_smal.jpg


1_next4_3_smal.jpg


NEXT4-cab-small.png


NEXT4-cab-MT-small.png


NEXT4-test-set-up.jpg


THANKS FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION!
Thanks for your excellent advice this is what I mean by mods. This will help me so much. Thanks again. You right with so many mods there is not need to go through all the trouble of building an ATS. I will not build the ATS, to much work and not enough reward. This is the kind of advice i'm seeking.
 
LineSource which design do you think is the best for my situation the Wilmslow Prestige or the Passlabs SR2. I can have any cabinet built. So out of all design possibilities which would you go with if it were you and building a cabinet wasn't a problem. It sounds like you have the expertise I am looking for on the project. Thanks my brother.
 
Avalon Eidolon Diamond

Thanks for your excellent advice this is what I mean by mods. This will help me so much. Thanks again. You right with so many mods there is not need to go through all the trouble of building an ATS. I will not build the ATS, to much work and not enough reward. This is the kind of advice i'm seeking.
Does anyone have the cabinet plans for Avalon Eidolon Diamond loudspeaker. I think that this is the way I would like to go and modify for the AE TD speakers sealed or ported design. If they're are any negatives that you know of in build these using AE transducers please let me know before I start construction. Thanks your info is deeply appreciated.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
 
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Remember the "Indiana Jones and the Holy Grail" scene in the cave where Indy has to choose the correct cup to save his Father....
YOU must ... "Choose Wisely"
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You will likely have to modify any design you find to fit the box volumes for your specific drivers. If you have settled on the Avalon style, it's time to create a CAD drawing for your drivers which the cabinet shop CNC can read. I gave you all the WinISD sim data you need. Study a few theads on cabinet bracing. Post your CAD design for peer review.
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The Avalon Eidolon product uses an 11" woofer. It has a slanted baffle to provide some time alignment with passive crossovers. MiniDSP allows a superior imaging straight baffle.
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TonyG Soup Ceramique Avalon clone uses an 8" woofer.
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Avalon cut edges with all "nude" Baltic Birch with clear finish has a Euro-Tech look that some like.
 

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I am going to babble.

8 years ago I started down a path. My path started with Tony G's 'Humble Statement' speaker. Like Mr. Keller, I wanted to start at the top, build the best speaker in the world, and be done with it. Hmmmmmm!

Once my speaker was finished, I listened, and loved. I thought I was done.

But wait a second. What if I was to build the faceplate out of aluminum? What if I tried Roxul green fiberglass insulation instead that other stuff? What would happen if I rounded the edges even more? How would the Accuton Diamond Tweeter sound? How can I get punchier bass? What happens to the sound if I tweak the crossover this way? The list is endless.

I sold my first speaker, and built the second.

Number 8 will be started this spring.

DIY is a journey, not a destination.

You will learn more by what you don't like in your first build, than what you do like. You will take that knowledge, and you will build a better speaker. But it won't be better, it'll be worse, and again you will learn.

I envy you. It has taken me this long to try the Acoustic Elegance drivers. You are at this point 8 years sooner than me.

I will be using the AE drivers because I think they will work great in a series crossover'd speaker. I might be wrong, in which case I will again 'learn'.

Stop asking for advice. We all have our own ideas. You need to find out who you are, and what you like. Build one of Tony's or Troel's designs, it's a great place to start.

Remember, with the exception of your first child's birth, there is nothing more humbling than realizing that the speakers you've just spend months working on have been sanded by you to the point that it looks like the ocean on a windy day. Next step, go to DIY woodworking website. Where's my red wine?
 
Dayton audio RSS315HFA-8

Thanks LineSource I will make adjustments for my transducers. Thanks again you are really showing your skills. :D
Should I use the Dayton Ref RSS315HFA-8 ohm pair form say 60-70hz and down and make this project a 4-way since I already have them and the minidsp 4x10HD is a 4 way x-over. Also is it better to have them in the same speaker in their own sealed department just below the TD12S, or have them in their own enclosure in another location in the room where the bass is the most prominent. Pro & Cons. Thanks
 
Subs for build

Should I use the Dayton Ref RSS315HFA-8 ohm pair form say 60-70hz and down and make this project a 4-way since I already have them and the minidsp 4x10HD is a 4 way x-over. Also is it better to have them in the same speaker in their own sealed department just below the TD12S, or have them in their own enclosure in another location in the room where the bass is the most prominent. Pro & Cons. Thanks

Ok Gurus let me have it. Which way would you go 3 or 4 way. Thanks
Ok Gurus, lets here it. Which sub is best for this build and 3 way or 4 way. Your opinions. Thanks
 
Best bass help

Ok, gurus i'm getting closer to the start date on my project and I need your advice. Since I was here last I have purchased a second pair of AE TD12S for a total of two pair. Each TD12s will have it's own 3 cu ft sealed enclosure and there will be a pair of TD12s per left and right enclosure.At the advice of a member I have purchased a pair of Wyred 4 sound SX-1000 mono amps which will see a 4 ohm load from the two 8ohm woofers wired for 4ohm so the W4S mono amps will put out 1000 watts each mono block. I was informed that this power is needed to get the TD12s down to 20-40hz flat so I made the purchase. Now I already have two pair of Dayton audio RSS315HFA-8 subs and a pair of Adcom gfa-565 mono amps at 300 wpc 8ohm and 600 wpc 4ohm. Should I use the W4S amps on the daytons or on the TD12s? There are two daytons for the left and two for the right. Trying to have the best slam and musicality that can be had out of my system. Thanks please lead me down the correct path.I have a minidsp 4X10HD with the plug-in & mic for the mains and an OpenDRC-AN with the 2X2 plug-in for the subs so that I can use the balanced xlr connections. Thanks for your opinions.
 
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Here is the impedance graph for the AE TD12M. I know you have the 12S, but the graphs should be close.

At 50HZ, a single has impedance of 20 Ohms. Dual woofers 10 Ohms. Amplifier output at 10 Ohms, ~450 watts.

At 40Hz, a single has impedance of 32 Ohms. Dual woofers 16 Ohms. Amplifier output at 16 Ohms, ~250 watts.

At 30Hz, a single has impedance of 100+ Ohms. Dual woofers 50+ Ohms. Amplifier output at 50+ Ohms, ~80 watts.

At 27Hz, a single has impedance of 145 Ohms. Dual woofers 72.5 Ohms. Amplifier output at 72.5 Ohms, ~ 60 watts.

At this point I'm gonna do something really silly.

Why not;
1) run them in series, thus 'doubling' the impedance.
2) find a 100+ watt tube amplifier (for the woofer section).

100+ watts @ 8 Ohms
120+ watts @ 16 Ohms
130+ watts at anything above 32 Ohms.

Linear power means linear output.
Under 30Hz the tube amp will put out twice the power of a solid state.
Twice the power means +3dB of gain.
+3dB means twice as loud below 30Hz.
 

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Here is the impedance graph for the AE TD12M. I know you have the 12S, but the graphs should be close.

At 50HZ, a single has impedance of 20 Ohms. Dual woofers 10 Ohms. Amplifier output at 10 Ohms, ~450 watts.

At 40Hz, a single has impedance of 32 Ohms. Dual woofers 16 Ohms. Amplifier output at 16 Ohms, ~250 watts.

At 30Hz, a single has impedance of 100+ Ohms. Dual woofers 50+ Ohms. Amplifier output at 50+ Ohms, ~80 watts.

At 27Hz, a single has impedance of 145 Ohms. Dual woofers 72.5 Ohms. Amplifier output at 72.5 Ohms, ~ 60 watts.

At this point I'm gonna do something really silly.

Why not;
1) run them in series, thus 'doubling' the impedance.
2) find a 100+ watt tube amplifier (for the woofer section).

100+ watts @ 8 Ohms
120+ watts @ 16 Ohms
130+ watts at anything above 32 Ohms.

Linear power means linear output.
Under 30Hz the tube amp will put out twice the power of a solid state.
Twice the power means +3dB of gain.
+3dB means twice as loud below 30Hz.
 
Good morning Mr. Keller

I had a quick look at the Adcom GFA 565.

There are two types of solid state amps.
1) Voltage source output stage. This yields twice the power into half the impedance. If your Adcom was a voltage source, it would be 600w into 4 ohms, 1200w into 2 ohms, etc. It is not. Therefore
2) Current source output stage. Another company which believes in current source is Magnum Dynalab. A highly underrated amp. This current source does not double into half the impedance. This is good. This is an amp which simulates a tube amp. This type of amp does not follow the example I gave above. Great start.

Your Adcom will not fall off with high woofer impedance'. No need to sell it.

Let's build you the greatest speaker on the planet.

You need to buy another driver.
This needs to be a 4-way.
There will be a -3dB baffle loss from the TD6M. Therefore we only want to run it to ~ 900-1000Hz. Thin baffle at the TD6M. This means a triangular speaker.
This will make it a mid woofer.
We need a midrange. It must be 3dB LESS in sensitivity. The Morel 55 2" will work, as will the Visaton G50FFL or DSM50FFL.
We can add resistors to your tweeter.

Your TD12 will need a slot port.
Simulate a slot port which gives you a tuning frequency BELOW the drivers Fs. Helmholtz is a word I remember from somewhere.

We need the drivers impedance curves in their enclosures

Build a test box. 1/2" plywood is fine. 1 box only. It's going in the garbage. No need to countersink anything. 0.15cf (or slightly bigger) for the TD6M. Get the midrange and tweeter as close as possible, 1mm space. Go to tolvans website. We need a good spacing between the TD6M and which ever midrange you get.

My Fully Balanced Dual Cascade Paralleled SERIES 4-way crossover is the greatest crossover on planet Earth. Period. Not in your wildest dreams can you envision what these speakers will sound like. No simulation software. A pen, paper, and mhaudio.com.

Order the midrange, build the test box, and get me those measurements.
 
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