Hey hey,
This is my first post on DIYA, so before we get into my dilemma, maybe I should introduce myself. I'm very familiar to the audio world, specifically on the car audio side. I've built a complete custom SQ-oriented system in my car, which if you like, you can read all about here.
Also, I have a bit of old school Hi-Fi gear that I mainly use for vinyl, which consists of an Akai AM-U04, a pair of NEC AUS-8000E speakers (all made in Japan), and a basic Numark TT-USB turntable with an Audio Technica AT92E cartridge. Not much, but for my use, it sounds great.
So, onto the problem: I just scored an awesome set of B&W 602 S3 speakers for free from a friend of mine as he did not use them anymore. They got some minor chips and bangs, but otherwise they're in very decent condition. I'm powering them with a Kenwood AR-404 and using them as speakers for my desktop computer (playing music, some gaming, blah blah blah). The only thing is that one of the tweeters no longer works. I know it's not the crossovers in the speakers as I swapped the tweeters around to confirm this. Thus, I need replacements. However, as a student, I really don't want to spend in excess of $200 dollars by getting the tweeters directly from B&W. And plus, the B&W tweeters (well the one that still works) are a bit bright for my taste. I like my tweeters detailed, but not overly bright, which some of you may be able to deduce by my choice of Morel tweets in my vehicle.
With this in mind, and based off of another members experience with modifying the same speakers here, I was looking at the Vifa XT25SC90's and the XT25TG30's, and I had a few questions concerning the two.
- What would be the difference in sound between the two tweeters?
- Which one would be the best option regarding my setup?
- Would I have an easier time mounting one versus the other?
If anyone as any other suggestions, let me know. As I'm in Canada and things tend to be more expensive, I'd like to keep it below $90-100 per pair, and the less expensive, the better. However, if (for example) there would be a very noticeable difference in sound between the SC90 and TG30 XT25's where the more expensive tweeter would benefit me, I would rather go with the option that would make me happiest.
Thanks!
This is my first post on DIYA, so before we get into my dilemma, maybe I should introduce myself. I'm very familiar to the audio world, specifically on the car audio side. I've built a complete custom SQ-oriented system in my car, which if you like, you can read all about here.
Also, I have a bit of old school Hi-Fi gear that I mainly use for vinyl, which consists of an Akai AM-U04, a pair of NEC AUS-8000E speakers (all made in Japan), and a basic Numark TT-USB turntable with an Audio Technica AT92E cartridge. Not much, but for my use, it sounds great.
So, onto the problem: I just scored an awesome set of B&W 602 S3 speakers for free from a friend of mine as he did not use them anymore. They got some minor chips and bangs, but otherwise they're in very decent condition. I'm powering them with a Kenwood AR-404 and using them as speakers for my desktop computer (playing music, some gaming, blah blah blah). The only thing is that one of the tweeters no longer works. I know it's not the crossovers in the speakers as I swapped the tweeters around to confirm this. Thus, I need replacements. However, as a student, I really don't want to spend in excess of $200 dollars by getting the tweeters directly from B&W. And plus, the B&W tweeters (well the one that still works) are a bit bright for my taste. I like my tweeters detailed, but not overly bright, which some of you may be able to deduce by my choice of Morel tweets in my vehicle.
With this in mind, and based off of another members experience with modifying the same speakers here, I was looking at the Vifa XT25SC90's and the XT25TG30's, and I had a few questions concerning the two.
- What would be the difference in sound between the two tweeters?
- Which one would be the best option regarding my setup?
- Would I have an easier time mounting one versus the other?
If anyone as any other suggestions, let me know. As I'm in Canada and things tend to be more expensive, I'd like to keep it below $90-100 per pair, and the less expensive, the better. However, if (for example) there would be a very noticeable difference in sound between the SC90 and TG30 XT25's where the more expensive tweeter would benefit me, I would rather go with the option that would make me happiest.
Thanks!
The sound of a speaker is largely dictates by the crossover and not the drivers. If you think that the DM602 sounds a bit bright, you can easily pad down the tweeter, the resistor in the crossover is 0R47, you can test with some higher value resistors (1R?, 1R5?). Anyway, resistors are cheap.
If you want to go with the XT tweeter, I don't find that the link you posted is a work well done (poor phase tracking in and out of the crossover region, poor measurement methodology, confusion between acoustical and electrical slopes). I think that the XT can work with the DM602 woofer, the effort depends on your ability and measurement gear. Between the two XTs (small and big plate), I suspect you'll have problems in fitting the smaller one onto the DM602 baffle.
My last point to you is that speaker so big are unsuited for near field listening. For the 90-100$ you are willing to spend in modding the DM602 you can easily build some small desktop speakers based on a fullrange driver.
Ralf
PS. Did you get a quote from B&W for a new tweeter? It seems unlikely to me a price of more than 200$.
If you want to go with the XT tweeter, I don't find that the link you posted is a work well done (poor phase tracking in and out of the crossover region, poor measurement methodology, confusion between acoustical and electrical slopes). I think that the XT can work with the DM602 woofer, the effort depends on your ability and measurement gear. Between the two XTs (small and big plate), I suspect you'll have problems in fitting the smaller one onto the DM602 baffle.
My last point to you is that speaker so big are unsuited for near field listening. For the 90-100$ you are willing to spend in modding the DM602 you can easily build some small desktop speakers based on a fullrange driver.
Ralf
PS. Did you get a quote from B&W for a new tweeter? It seems unlikely to me a price of more than 200$.
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Keep it simple. I would try to mount the Vifa/Peerless BC25TG15-04 and change only the first resistor in the crossover (0.47 ohm?) to 1.5 ohm. Just a guess of course! 
https://www.solen.ca/pub/index.php?...eau1=1&niveau2=1&niveau3=2&s1=2&s2=1&s3=2&s4=
https://www.solen.ca/pub/index.php?...eau1=1&niveau2=1&niveau3=2&s1=2&s2=1&s3=2&s4=
The issue really seems to be: Will it fit?
B&W Group North America Service & Support - Service Manuals
The Vifa XT25SC90-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter looks promising.
It's the 3 mounting screws that might be the main issue IMO. Some measuring required. The crossover should be easy enough to adjust for level. Looks like a 4 ohm crossover, as it goes, which is good. Those Vifa XT tweeters get my approval.
B&W Group North America Service & Support - Service Manuals
The Vifa XT25SC90-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter looks promising.
It's the 3 mounting screws that might be the main issue IMO. Some measuring required. The crossover should be easy enough to adjust for level. Looks like a 4 ohm crossover, as it goes, which is good. Those Vifa XT tweeters get my approval.
Attachments
Keep it simple. I would try to mount the Vifa/Peerless BC25TG15-04 and change only the first resistor in the crossover (0.47 ohm?) to 1.5 ohm. Just a guess of course!
https://www.solen.ca/pub/index.php?...eau1=1&niveau2=1&niveau3=2&s1=2&s2=1&s3=2&s4=
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm all for the K.I.S.S. method of doing things. I'll take a look at those tweeters!
Thanks for the input. I have no problem tearing into crossovers, I am a studying Electrical/Computer engineer currently. I actually have a ton of small resistors lying around, I probably have a few 1R5's somewhere. I know the response is largely dictated by the crossovers, but the drivers can have different tonal characteristics depending on the material of the domes, in this case.
Despite being used as desktop speakers, they sit realitively far back and a decent way's apart (I have a 27" monitor and a pretty large desk). I'd say they're around 0.7m apart and I sit about 1.2m back from them at any time.
I know its not completley optimal, but I'm still reasonably happy with the sound at that position. For free, and then 45 bucks shipped for the Vifa BC tweeters I was suggested, I can't complain too much.
As for the price from B&W, the price I got was from their online store, which includes 1 tweeter and 1 diaphram (the bad tweeter and the working tweeter both have damaged diaphrams). Add in shipping and taxes, and you're over 200. Canadians have it rough.
The issue really seems to be: Will it fit?
B&W Group North America Service & Support - Service Manuals
The Vifa XT25SC90-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter looks promising.
It's the 3 mounting screws that might be the main issue IMO. Some measuring required. The crossover should be easy enough to adjust for level. Looks like a 4 ohm crossover, as it goes, which is good. Those Vifa XT tweeters get my approval.
Thanks for the diagrams! They will certainly come in handy. I think I can get the tweeters to fit without issue, the diameter looks similar to the B&W units. I can screw them directly to the baffle if they don't pop into place.
Hey everyone,
I realized I haven't updated this thread since 2015! I ended up going with the Peerless BC25TG15-04, and then modifying the front of my B&W's to mount them. I then sealed around the tweeter to prevent any possible air leaks.
They run hot still as I (still, after 5 years...) haven't modified the crossover at all. I just EQ'd the treble down instead from the source side, and that does the trick.
I'll have to tear them open soon, I'll take some pictures while I'm in there.
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