I need help from fellow members.
My speakers - 3-way Kharma CRM 1.2 with Scanspeak Revelator tweeters D2905/99000 are too revealing and bright for my taste and giving me constant ear pain, listening fatigue and headache (less than 1 hr at moderate volume on most music played)
Other components of my system are: Audio Aero Capitole Ref SE cd player; amps are a pair of solid state (Artec ART ref. ES 100 - high end French made) and a pair of vacuum tube monos KR VT 8000 used interchangingly. Interconnects (copper) are Harmonix Golden Ref (XLR), Speaker cables (copper) are Jorma Design Unity and Power cords (copper) are Harmonix Studio Master on the amps and Kharma Grand Ref. on the CD player.
I have a dedicated music room 24 x 16 ft, with a church type inverted V shaped roof between 10ft and 20ft high. Room (all 4 sides + roof) is concrete finished but the floor is entirely covered with pine wood and a thick carpet over the pine wood, and the entire back wall (behind the speakers) is also covered with a carpet.
Speakers are placed alongside short walls - around 5ft from back walls and around 3ft from side walls.
The speakers, like most of my other gears, were bought brand new several years ago and they are all well broken in.
I have done a lot of tests (gear swapping, speaker placements, different music CDs etc.) and am now almost certain that my speakers are giving me the ear pain and headache. Previously I had pure silver cables (Kharma Supreme Ref and Audio Note ANVx) which I have changed to all copper ones.
For geograpgical/cost/economic reasons it is impossible for me to re-sell the speakers (they weigh about 180 lbs each). So, rather than putting these expensive speakers (Retailed over US$ 25k) in my store and getting suitable replacements (again at considerable cost), would it be possible to take the risk of changing the tweeters?
If so, kindly suggest suitable replacements, without me having to fiddle with the crossovers or other aspects. Midrange are Accuton made and woofers are 11 inch kelvar, I believe.
Also, I noticed that the midrange drivers of each speaker has some brown stains on them - probably dried up ferro fluid. Don't know if this might be the root cause of my problem but I did some internet research and it appears that this may not be the cause. So the tweeters are probably the culprit.
Other than the ear fatigue/head aches, I like the look and sound of my speakers.
Would greatly appreciate your help and advice.
I can send pics and additional technical details/pics of my system if this can help.
A big thanks in anticipation.
My speakers - 3-way Kharma CRM 1.2 with Scanspeak Revelator tweeters D2905/99000 are too revealing and bright for my taste and giving me constant ear pain, listening fatigue and headache (less than 1 hr at moderate volume on most music played)
Other components of my system are: Audio Aero Capitole Ref SE cd player; amps are a pair of solid state (Artec ART ref. ES 100 - high end French made) and a pair of vacuum tube monos KR VT 8000 used interchangingly. Interconnects (copper) are Harmonix Golden Ref (XLR), Speaker cables (copper) are Jorma Design Unity and Power cords (copper) are Harmonix Studio Master on the amps and Kharma Grand Ref. on the CD player.
I have a dedicated music room 24 x 16 ft, with a church type inverted V shaped roof between 10ft and 20ft high. Room (all 4 sides + roof) is concrete finished but the floor is entirely covered with pine wood and a thick carpet over the pine wood, and the entire back wall (behind the speakers) is also covered with a carpet.
Speakers are placed alongside short walls - around 5ft from back walls and around 3ft from side walls.
The speakers, like most of my other gears, were bought brand new several years ago and they are all well broken in.
I have done a lot of tests (gear swapping, speaker placements, different music CDs etc.) and am now almost certain that my speakers are giving me the ear pain and headache. Previously I had pure silver cables (Kharma Supreme Ref and Audio Note ANVx) which I have changed to all copper ones.
For geograpgical/cost/economic reasons it is impossible for me to re-sell the speakers (they weigh about 180 lbs each). So, rather than putting these expensive speakers (Retailed over US$ 25k) in my store and getting suitable replacements (again at considerable cost), would it be possible to take the risk of changing the tweeters?
If so, kindly suggest suitable replacements, without me having to fiddle with the crossovers or other aspects. Midrange are Accuton made and woofers are 11 inch kelvar, I believe.
Also, I noticed that the midrange drivers of each speaker has some brown stains on them - probably dried up ferro fluid. Don't know if this might be the root cause of my problem but I did some internet research and it appears that this may not be the cause. So the tweeters are probably the culprit.
Other than the ear fatigue/head aches, I like the look and sound of my speakers.
Would greatly appreciate your help and advice.
I can send pics and additional technical details/pics of my system if this can help.
A big thanks in anticipation.
You'll probably get more help by posting in the multiway forum rather than the full-range, which is largely about single-driver systems. However, to start off:
-The old 9900 Revelator is not up to the latest SS units, but it's still decent per se, although not without some issues. It has a mildly falling response with a mode at about 14KHz, probably from the waveguide, plus a minor issue that shows up in the impedance curve around 2KHz. Otherwise it's a low distortion design with symmetric drive, so few issues to worry about there.
Assuming the tweeters are functioning properly / undamaged, rather than replacing them, you may need to look at some crossover modifications, since except in a very small handful of cases, it's not as simple as just swapping a drive unit -the high pass that's in there, assuming the speakers are competently designed, was done for the 9900, and won't work with other units, even assuming they physically fit the baffle cut-out. A fix may be as simple as simply adding more attenuation / padding to the tweeter, although this will depend on the filter that's in there at present: brightness is not always about the top-end of the tweeter, nor is it necessarily always about the tweeter itself. Insufficiently suppressed breakup modes from the midrange / midbass drivers can be another cause. Without knowing the driver models & the filter design though, it's almost impossible to say.
One suggestion: get a couple of thin-ish tea-towels or similar, and drape them over the front so they're covering the tweeters (but not touching). Have a listen & see if you have the same problem after an hour or so.
-The old 9900 Revelator is not up to the latest SS units, but it's still decent per se, although not without some issues. It has a mildly falling response with a mode at about 14KHz, probably from the waveguide, plus a minor issue that shows up in the impedance curve around 2KHz. Otherwise it's a low distortion design with symmetric drive, so few issues to worry about there.
Assuming the tweeters are functioning properly / undamaged, rather than replacing them, you may need to look at some crossover modifications, since except in a very small handful of cases, it's not as simple as just swapping a drive unit -the high pass that's in there, assuming the speakers are competently designed, was done for the 9900, and won't work with other units, even assuming they physically fit the baffle cut-out. A fix may be as simple as simply adding more attenuation / padding to the tweeter, although this will depend on the filter that's in there at present: brightness is not always about the top-end of the tweeter, nor is it necessarily always about the tweeter itself. Insufficiently suppressed breakup modes from the midrange / midbass drivers can be another cause. Without knowing the driver models & the filter design though, it's almost impossible to say.
One suggestion: get a couple of thin-ish tea-towels or similar, and drape them over the front so they're covering the tweeters (but not touching). Have a listen & see if you have the same problem after an hour or so.
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+1 on the drape a towel over the tweeter a la Yamaha NS10 style. Doesn't cost anything and you get an idea.
Have you made any measurements with a calibrated mic and software like REW etc? A frequency response spectrum can be very useful but won't show everything. I have sometimes found fatigue to be caused by excessive "phasiness" from excessive EQ'ing in the 500 Hz to 6kHz range. It may measure flat but sounds unbearable after some time. This can also be caused by a crossover with "phasiness". A good test for this is to listen to a fullrange speaker free of XO and EQ (but with appropriate BSC applied) and see if fatigue goes away.
Have you made any measurements with a calibrated mic and software like REW etc? A frequency response spectrum can be very useful but won't show everything. I have sometimes found fatigue to be caused by excessive "phasiness" from excessive EQ'ing in the 500 Hz to 6kHz range. It may measure flat but sounds unbearable after some time. This can also be caused by a crossover with "phasiness". A good test for this is to listen to a fullrange speaker free of XO and EQ (but with appropriate BSC applied) and see if fatigue goes away.
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