Hi everyone,
I'm new to the forum & have a problem with an overly bright tweeter on one of my Musical Fidelity MC2 loudspeakers (v1's), which presumably means the tweeter has 'blown' or the crossover is faulty?
Can anyone advise me about possible repair or replacement of the offending parts & help me restore some level of speaker performance?
Many thanks,
I'm new to the forum & have a problem with an overly bright tweeter on one of my Musical Fidelity MC2 loudspeakers (v1's), which presumably means the tweeter has 'blown' or the crossover is faulty?
Can anyone advise me about possible repair or replacement of the offending parts & help me restore some level of speaker performance?
Many thanks,
Hi,
Swap tweeters and see if the problem moves.
I assume you've already tried swapping the
speakers around to discount the electronics.
Drivers don't generally fail by becoming "bright",
unless your really talking about more distortion.
I have a pair of MC2 v1's, if its not the tweeters
then check over the x/o boards and its connections.
The terminals can become loose. I can't see any
of the treble x/o components going west really.
rgds, sreten.
The Elac tweeters are hard to source, in the UK at least.
Swap tweeters and see if the problem moves.
I assume you've already tried swapping the
speakers around to discount the electronics.
Drivers don't generally fail by becoming "bright",
unless your really talking about more distortion.
I have a pair of MC2 v1's, if its not the tweeters
then check over the x/o boards and its connections.
The terminals can become loose. I can't see any
of the treble x/o components going west really.
rgds, sreten.
The Elac tweeters are hard to source, in the UK at least.
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Musical Fidelity MC2's
Hi Sreten,
Many thanks for your advice & prompt reply!
I've since been able to open up the speakers to check the cross over boards & components having previously swapped the speakers to verify & duly eliminate the electronics.
I have found a loose connection inside the offending speaker! Coming off one of the speaker terminals is a very fine red coloured wire which runs into a small green plastic looking cotton reel, the wire then exits & runs to a soldered connection where 2 yellow cylindrical x/o components are joined, this fine red wire is completely loose on this connection (you can see where it was once soldered).
IMG_0340.jpg
I've attempted to include a photo attachment with this post, I've never done it before so I hope it's worked!
I'm waiting to borrow a soldering iron from a friend to fix the connection & then I'll try listening to see if this has cured the 'brightness' - I guess there is a level of distortion even at fairly low volumes - the sound is very 'splashy'.
From what I've explained do you feel that this faulty connection would cause the sound problems I've been experiencing?
Once again many thanks Sreten & I'll update you after the soldering is completed.
Hi Sreten,
Many thanks for your advice & prompt reply!
I've since been able to open up the speakers to check the cross over boards & components having previously swapped the speakers to verify & duly eliminate the electronics.
I have found a loose connection inside the offending speaker! Coming off one of the speaker terminals is a very fine red coloured wire which runs into a small green plastic looking cotton reel, the wire then exits & runs to a soldered connection where 2 yellow cylindrical x/o components are joined, this fine red wire is completely loose on this connection (you can see where it was once soldered).
IMG_0340.jpg
I've attempted to include a photo attachment with this post, I've never done it before so I hope it's worked!
I'm waiting to borrow a soldering iron from a friend to fix the connection & then I'll try listening to see if this has cured the 'brightness' - I guess there is a level of distortion even at fairly low volumes - the sound is very 'splashy'.
From what I've explained do you feel that this faulty connection would cause the sound problems I've been experiencing?
Once again many thanks Sreten & I'll update you after the soldering is completed.
Attachments
Hi ! sorry to take up again the thread ... but i found and bought a pair of these MC2 first edition with the reflex port on the back.
The woofers coils scrape. I guess they must be pushed too much.
I wonder about replace them. I am out of home and i did not save the marking on the magnets ...
I understand they have been used by many british manufacturers like i think Mission, TDL, ???
The tweeters instead look very very serious with metallic dome (?) and sound ok ...
in the weekend i will try to upload the pics of the drivers.
The cabinet is quite heavy and caused me a bad back. No pain no gain.
Any suggestion would be very welcome and appreciated.
The woofers coils scrape. I guess they must be pushed too much.
I wonder about replace them. I am out of home and i did not save the marking on the magnets ...
I understand they have been used by many british manufacturers like i think Mission, TDL, ???
The tweeters instead look very very serious with metallic dome (?) and sound ok ...
in the weekend i will try to upload the pics of the drivers.
The cabinet is quite heavy and caused me a bad back. No pain no gain.
Any suggestion would be very welcome and appreciated.
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I looked at a few images and my first guess is that it uses an Elac bass unit.
As you say images of the rear of the bass speaker should help, and while you are inside the cabinet some crossover photos plus a hand drawn circuit diagram will help others understand more about the original design concept.
It could be tricky to find replacements, not impossible but tricky.
Do you know of the old trick of inverting, or rotating the bass units by 180 degrees this can sometimes solve the issue of rubbing voice coils caused by cone sag.
As you say images of the rear of the bass speaker should help, and while you are inside the cabinet some crossover photos plus a hand drawn circuit diagram will help others understand more about the original design concept.
It could be tricky to find replacements, not impossible but tricky.
Do you know of the old trick of inverting, or rotating the bass units by 180 degrees this can sometimes solve the issue of rubbing voice coils caused by cone sag.
Hi ! thanks a lot for the very kind and helpful reply/advice.
I will do it in the weekend ... during the week i am out of home for my job.
I saw some marks ... the tweeter instead should be very easy to identify.
It could be a Seas maybe ? i will try to upload pictures
No. I do not understand. But moving the cones back and forth with fingers i hear the rubbings very clearly ...in one woofer much more than the other.
The coils are not interrupted i measured them being about 6.8 ohm ? the measurements are not precise.
I will be more clear later.
I like the tweeters and the cabinet quite heavy ... from reviews i gather the idea of a good rendition of voices and decent soundstage. For me more than a sign of sound quality.
Thanks again.
Have a nice day.
Much like ourselves loudspeaker cones and their suspensions are affected by gravity and they sag downwards over the years. This can cause voice coil rubbing. So simply undo the bass fro
Driver mounting screw's and rotate it by 180 degrees. If you are lucky this may stop the voice coil rubbing. Refit the screws and retry. Maybe wait a day or two even if it doesn't immediately cure the problem to see if they settle with no rubbing.
Driver mounting screw's and rotate it by 180 degrees. If you are lucky this may stop the voice coil rubbing. Refit the screws and retry. Maybe wait a day or two even if it doesn't immediately cure the problem to see if they settle with no rubbing.
Hi ! now i understand
problem is that i have already dismantled them and they out of the box. I will try to check if the rubbing changes rotating the woofer as i noticed at least with one woofer. Pushing below the midline was not producing noise. Moreover the cone material looks like plastics ...
But first i would like to check the quality of the tweeters ... if they are good as i think i could look for a nice new pair of woofers ... maybe even smaller with an adapter ring for mounting. These are 8" ... i could use 6.5-7" units without loosing much bass but with a better midrange ?
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Hi attaching pics of the label on woofer and tweeter for identification
As i said i am open to suggestion for woofer replacement even with units of smaller size that could work well enough without messing with the xover.
I still suffer of a badback ... i will try to look at the xover but i would like to keep it as it is maybe using better parts same values.
From what i read these speakers should give a nice soundstage and midrange.
Thanks !
As i said i am open to suggestion for woofer replacement even with units of smaller size that could work well enough without messing with the xover.
I still suffer of a badback ... i will try to look at the xover but i would like to keep it as it is maybe using better parts same values.
From what i read these speakers should give a nice soundstage and midrange.
Thanks !
Attachments
22PPGHN isn't much to work with for the woofer spec.
PP could mean Polypropylene cone and the 8 may relate to the nominal impedance, 22 could be related to overall diameter, but I am guessing again.
Did you try rotating the speaker to see if it stops the rubbing sound? To help us further an image of the cone and the rest of the magnet and basket assembly may help. Failing that in terms of a replacement what is the diameter of the woofer cutout diameter of the cabinet, as that will help determine finding a replacement that fits nicely.
Tweeter is from Norway ! Hmm let me think, of course a SEAS type 25TAFC/G-MF H490 8 ohms again. I am sure if you contact seas they will offer advice on what their current closest design. But the tweeters are functional anyway so no need for immediate replacement. If you look at SEAS tweeters they all have a Hxxxx type designation these days so I couldn't see a simple match for it.
Keep us updated
PP could mean Polypropylene cone and the 8 may relate to the nominal impedance, 22 could be related to overall diameter, but I am guessing again.
Did you try rotating the speaker to see if it stops the rubbing sound? To help us further an image of the cone and the rest of the magnet and basket assembly may help. Failing that in terms of a replacement what is the diameter of the woofer cutout diameter of the cabinet, as that will help determine finding a replacement that fits nicely.
Tweeter is from Norway ! Hmm let me think, of course a SEAS type 25TAFC/G-MF H490 8 ohms again. I am sure if you contact seas they will offer advice on what their current closest design. But the tweeters are functional anyway so no need for immediate replacement. If you look at SEAS tweeters they all have a Hxxxx type designation these days so I couldn't see a simple match for it.
Keep us updated
Will this fit as it is a nice price, and you could work it either sealed or reflex with your MC2 cabinet, for sealed just stuff the port with Dacron or some similar material.
Seas P21RE/P H0942-08 Woofer. H0313 2015 remake
There will be several other alternatives for an 8" in a reflex box, and others may add their own ideas.
Seas P21RE/P H0942-08 Woofer. H0313 2015 remake
There will be several other alternatives for an 8" in a reflex box, and others may add their own ideas.
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Good morning ! yes unfortunately there is no brand/part number marked on the magnet If i had the skills and the instruments i could try to measure the parameters. I have only measured a DC resistance of about 6 ohm but not precisely.
i am a little scared to connect an amp that could get damaged by these loads ? no problems ? in this case i could do another thing.
Like sending a let's say a continuous 100 Hz signal to the woofers and rotate them during the test ? could that help in some way ?
but i am growing skeptical ... the cones could be deformed
Good. I will take more pics and measure the woofer and cabinet hole. But as i said above i have the feeling that a replacement could be a wiser choice
I have great respect for Seas product. Big and great brand indeed. When i will have more time and this is a medium term project i would like to go hunting for drivers and measure them with a decent set-up. I have the feeling that some more or less vintage drivers can be still quite good and almost nobody care about them.
When i attended audio fairs i saw only middle aged men ... the youngers do not care about soundstage, prat ... things like that. They live with earphones embedded in their skulls.
Coming back to tweeters the feeling is nice. I like the chamber behind the magnet. Just a feeling ... and they seem to work fine.
Thank you very much indeed !!! i love the look of this woofer a lot ... i am buying two soon.
What means to me is to selected two decent drivers ... then i could have at the response curve of the woofers ... the speakers have bi-wiring option with i guess two separate filters for woofer and tweeter. Quite convenient to experiment a little.
I will buy these woofers you mention. Will they sound as good as they look ?
Thank you so much again.
Have a very nice day.
Kind regards, gino
Milan
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Order placed. I like them a lot. I am curious to listen but in any case i guess i could look at the xover for some adjustments.
Thank you very much again.
As i said from various sources and sorry to sound trivial drivers selection is the very first step for any project.
What leaves me puzzled is that many people mention a evaluation by ear. A little not scientific ... but even gifted designers "listen" to drivers. And i understand human voice is a very useful tool to evaluate the fidelity of a driver.
I will let you know how it ends hopefully very soon with some pics of course.
Best wishes, gino
Firstly please verify that they will fit the existing cutout.They may just work just fine according to your ears.if not it will probably mean experimenting with the inductor for the bass to get that somewhere to being flat. Then maybe a tweak of the resistor feeding the tweeter. Measurement would make this a simple task. Take a record of any changes you make so that you can go back to something you enjoyed.
Hi ! yes you are right but they are on the way. No problem. I will find a use for them anyway. I could maybe cut an adapter from thick wood and place it to accomodate the new drivers. I also like drivers on different planes like in the famous b&w dm6 ... that complicates things a little but i will see.
What are your next steps once you have some foam gasket material.
Are you going to try them and see how the speakers perform. I would definitely listen to them over the next week or so before starting to changing things or trying to improve the fit.
It will be interesting to get your feedback on how they perform with the new bass units.
Are you going to try them and see how the speakers perform. I would definitely listen to them over the next week or so before starting to changing things or trying to improve the fit.
It will be interesting to get your feedback on how they perform with the new bass units.
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