Hi fellow DIY'ers!
For several years i have been enjoying all types, shapes and sizes of boxed speakers, but approximately a half year ago i started to do some research on the phenomenon known as dipole speakers.
2 months ago i came across PureAudioProject which has developed a open baffle system consisting of a HW kit which enables one to easily assemble the baffles almost without the use of any tools.
I decided to drop them an email and surprisingly Ze'ev, the founder behind PureAudioProject replied me the same day and showed a great interest in my DIY project. Our correspondences went on for a few weeks and Ze'ev came up with a new design suggestion for the construction based on a newly designed and manufactured woofer from Morel, namely PAP1075. Shortly he made the prototype of the speakers and the results were mindblowing (or is that earblowing?), neverthless i went ahead and decided it was time for me to try out this unexplored territory.
Reason why i chose this approach over building everything from scratch is simply because i want to achieve a elegant result without using infinite amount of time which i dont have as a working student.
I will keep this thread updated with images from the build process.
What i have in the pipeline right now are following:
TODO:
The amplifier is based on the TAS5630B module from TI, and the PCB's originate from a fellow member on this forum.
I hope anybody reading this thread is as excited as i am.
Stay tuned!
LINKS:
The birth of PAP1075, 10″ Open Baffle Bass and Mid Woofer
Chapter 2: Passive Crossover
For several years i have been enjoying all types, shapes and sizes of boxed speakers, but approximately a half year ago i started to do some research on the phenomenon known as dipole speakers.
2 months ago i came across PureAudioProject which has developed a open baffle system consisting of a HW kit which enables one to easily assemble the baffles almost without the use of any tools.
I decided to drop them an email and surprisingly Ze'ev, the founder behind PureAudioProject replied me the same day and showed a great interest in my DIY project. Our correspondences went on for a few weeks and Ze'ev came up with a new design suggestion for the construction based on a newly designed and manufactured woofer from Morel, namely PAP1075. Shortly he made the prototype of the speakers and the results were mindblowing (or is that earblowing?), neverthless i went ahead and decided it was time for me to try out this unexplored territory.
Reason why i chose this approach over building everything from scratch is simply because i want to achieve a elegant result without using infinite amount of time which i dont have as a working student.
I will keep this thread updated with images from the build process.
What i have in the pipeline right now are following:
TODO:
- Receive all HW components
- Receive all XO components
- Finding a wood source for the baffle panels
- Processing wood
- Assembling the baffles
- Build last monoblock for amplifier
- Test passive XO setups
- Test active XO setups
The amplifier is based on the TAS5630B module from TI, and the PCB's originate from a fellow member on this forum.
I hope anybody reading this thread is as excited as i am.
Stay tuned!
LINKS:
The birth of PAP1075, 10″ Open Baffle Bass and Mid Woofer
Chapter 2: Passive Crossover
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I stumbled upon them in the middle of the night taking a small break from report writing after googling around for a while. They are really some great and passionated guys and i have had alot of pleasure being in contact with them.
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I wonder where this will end... captions from links in post #1
- dipole loss below 250Hz - how eq'd, subwoofer help?
- dipole peak at 800Hz
--> huge variations in directivity/power response leading to troubles with typical room placement
Hello dear DIYaudio friends,
Here Ze'ev from PureAudioProject and please allow me to add on the quote and put it in it's right context...
Please note that these measurements are: the top driver (PAP(Morel)1075) and the tweeter (Morel CAT378) separately ! The bottom woofer is not active. These were taken during the two way XO design process, with various components values (different colors).
The context of it all is that we do this build in public, together with two audio and DIY enthusiasts that use our HW Kit and Baffles to simplify the wood work to an extend that anyone can build open baffle speakers (see pictures below) ! (PureAudioProject | Open Baffle sets, speakers and drivers) ...and... we share the process on our Blog and Facebook
These measurements simply provided us the GO for being able to meet the cross point between the PAP1075 bass/mid woofer (at the top) and the tweeter (in the center) at around 2.5KHZ
Though this was well hearable it had to be confirmed by measurements and Morel folks helped, did a quick one and even proposed the XO as well... Thanks !
The 10" PAP1075 (see spec) was designed by Morel specifically for Open Baffle, to serve as a Bass Woofer however, it's mechanics and materials make it a great mids performer. With it's features and the ability to play beautifully up to 2.5KHZ it can be integrated with various tweeters, including AMT etc... and form attractive, narrow OB sets that can fit nicely smaller rooms.
Next step with the 'Timeless' build is: adding the bottom woofer (also PAP1075) to the blend. A quick 'ear' test with 3.3mH Solen inductor at it's input and some level balancing provided a glorious GO on that too !
At this point we stopped, to allow our DIY associates to catch up with the progress and then to move on together to the 'ear/measurments' optimization and the next steps.
Ze'ev (PureAudioProject)
Attachments
Perfect day! The sun is shining and my thermometer is saying 22 degrees celsius, 2hours ago the door rang and the thing i have been waiting for as if it was christmas has arrived. Two packages arrived, one with the baffles and the second with the feet.
(1) I started with assembling the feet to the brackets, which was easier than a assembling a IKEA furniture hence no tools are necessary.
(2) I attached the front baffles with the rubber washer between the feet assembly.
(3) I attached the woofers to the baffle
Thats all, it took me under 30 minutes, plus joggling around with my camera and eating late breakfast simultaneously.
I quickly took some images under the process, perhaps a bit too fast, but hopefully it should give an idea of the assembling!
(1) I started with assembling the feet to the brackets, which was easier than a assembling a IKEA furniture hence no tools are necessary.
(2) I attached the front baffles with the rubber washer between the feet assembly.
(3) I attached the woofers to the baffle
Thats all, it took me under 30 minutes, plus joggling around with my camera and eating late breakfast simultaneously.
I quickly took some images under the process, perhaps a bit too fast, but hopefully it should give an idea of the assembling!
Attachments
Hi Ze'ev,
I see you have 10" option as Faitalpro 10FE200. Can you say comments about that driver ?
I've never seen it being used in hifi speakers, but apparently it has been used extensively in guitar cabinets. It has very wide bandwidth, and is also much more sensitive than your other choice 10" Morel.
.
The 10FE20 is a surprisingly low price driver that plays very deep and effortless bass and integrates reasonably well with full range drivers, if you don't take it too high (up to ~200hz).
The PAP(Morel)1075 is a different build and sonic league. It is an audiophile-grade OB bass and mid woofer that plays from the deepest bass to 3KHz and more. This allows integration with various tweeters, AMT etc.. and 2.5 or 3 way crossovers. See our Timeless with one woofer playing from the bottom to ~250HZ, one woofer from the bottom up to 2.5KHZ and soft dome horn tweeter from 2.5KHZ and up...
Timeless, Open Baffle Speakers feat. 2xPAP(Morel)1075 and CAT378OB Morel Soft Dome Horn Tweeter
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Timeless Crossover
Ze'ev
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Just a couple of observations. Your tweeters are firing at your knees. I would expect a big improvement in stage and image it they were raised up to your seated ear level. I am not a fan of tilting speakers either up or down as the image gets distorted when you do that. Second I don't know where your crossover is but the tweeter is small so I would at a guess say in the 3KHz range. That is going to make for some really funky radiation patterns for the woofers and just as funky off axis response. I do like the frame assembly you used very practical looking. Thanks for posting. Best regards Moray James.
Thanks Moray for the observations and the warm words,
There are pros and cons re the WTW vs WWT configuration and we take advantage of our flexible and modular structure to allow customers to choose ! as per their personal, sonic, listening and esthetics preference.
During the development and auditioning phase we had various responses on that point
and actually we'll be happy to have yours too... but after hearing !Here are two baffle plans that we supply to DIYers so one can easily experiment and build. The baffles are mounted in few minutes on our Trio10 HW Kit and form a finished set...
Ze'ev
PureAudioProject
PS. I also attach a photo with various configurations from the High End Show in Munich few weeks ago, and hope you'll like it
. All mounted on our HW Kits.Please note the TimelessPlus model (in the middle, with three PAP1075 and CAT378 Tweeter)... Also, it comes with a three way XO (kit photo below) The two PAP1075 at the bottom (in parallel) play up to 250HZ, the top PAP1075 plays the mids (250 to 2500HZ) and the Morel CAT378 horn tweeter plays highs from 2500HZ and up.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10151164_725479954182462_4715513843225921569_n.jpg
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open baffle suggestions
Hi Ze'ev,
Congratulations on your achievements, showing at Munich is a great milestone and very brave of you to commit all that money!
I like your frame concept, very neat.
For the dedicated music lover who can afford the floor space (dedicated music room with no kids!) to accommodate free standing stereo speakers open baffle speakers with 2 or 3 meters free space behind them are a fantastic solution.
I imagine you are very busy helping customers but if you get time I think you will be astonished at the benefits of Variable Path-length Cancellation (VPL) can bring to open baffle.
I have explained many times in previous posts ( going back nearly 10 years!) the technical explanations so if you are interested in that feel free to search my posts....It may be quicker just to build a prototype!
I will post a few pics to help you visualise the concept.
The short list of benefits are:
(1) At least 1 octave clean extension in the bass, usually two octaves.
(2) Like for like SPL / Fs reduction of 50% to 75% in cone excursion and therefore distortion.
(3) Enables much higher quality bass drivers to be used ie low Q with low Fs....Counterintuitive but highly successful.
(4) Maintains small front baffle asthetics and facilitates hiding the rear view electronics / drivers.
Final suggestions....
If you go to a 3 way you greatly reduce the distortion and free your designs of the mismatch in dispersion between your 10 inch and tweeter....This will give a huge increase in quality.
Also try using a pair of the Seas Excel W26 drivers per side as a direct replacement for the Morels, or better still a pair of 12 inch drivers...
One technical aspect of driver performance that is vital in OB design is the Mms to Bl ratio... The lower the ratio the better ie low Mms and High Bl is good! Combine this with a low Fs and you have a great candidate, assuming power handling and Xmax are acceptable.
The free air Fs dictates low end cut off in an open baffle....No amount of power or Eq below this will help as the driver will simply self destruct....Use Eq to pull down any resonance peaks, NOT to boost room mode nulls!
Hope this helps and all the best
Derek.
Hi Ze'ev,
Congratulations on your achievements, showing at Munich is a great milestone and very brave of you to commit all that money!
I like your frame concept, very neat.
For the dedicated music lover who can afford the floor space (dedicated music room with no kids!) to accommodate free standing stereo speakers open baffle speakers with 2 or 3 meters free space behind them are a fantastic solution.
I imagine you are very busy helping customers but if you get time I think you will be astonished at the benefits of Variable Path-length Cancellation (VPL) can bring to open baffle.
I have explained many times in previous posts ( going back nearly 10 years!) the technical explanations so if you are interested in that feel free to search my posts....It may be quicker just to build a prototype!
I will post a few pics to help you visualise the concept.
The short list of benefits are:
(1) At least 1 octave clean extension in the bass, usually two octaves.
(2) Like for like SPL / Fs reduction of 50% to 75% in cone excursion and therefore distortion.
(3) Enables much higher quality bass drivers to be used ie low Q with low Fs....Counterintuitive but highly successful.
(4) Maintains small front baffle asthetics and facilitates hiding the rear view electronics / drivers.
Final suggestions....
If you go to a 3 way you greatly reduce the distortion and free your designs of the mismatch in dispersion between your 10 inch and tweeter....This will give a huge increase in quality.
Also try using a pair of the Seas Excel W26 drivers per side as a direct replacement for the Morels, or better still a pair of 12 inch drivers...
One technical aspect of driver performance that is vital in OB design is the Mms to Bl ratio... The lower the ratio the better ie low Mms and High Bl is good! Combine this with a low Fs and you have a great candidate, assuming power handling and Xmax are acceptable.
The free air Fs dictates low end cut off in an open baffle....No amount of power or Eq below this will help as the driver will simply self destruct....Use Eq to pull down any resonance peaks, NOT to boost room mode nulls!
Hope this helps and all the best
Derek.
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