OK, I know this is going to sound a bit over the top but here it goes. I am looking into biulding a pair of line source arrays using the well used MTM metel cone drives and such (will save the details of that for another post) I was thinking of a pair of subs that would be able to keep up SPL and sound quality wise with the arrays. Here is what I was thinking:
Two matching towers each using 4 of these subs per tower. To drive each tower I was looking to use one ofthese for each tower . After modeling I was looking at about a 12 cubic foot tower slot vented on the back bottom of each tower. I guess my queations is what do you think about this. I am not sure if WinISD takes into account for room responce and the like. How do you think it would sound. I have a DefTech PF 1500 now and I really love is big powerful sound. Its still can do music very well but really shines on movies but I am just wanting something different.
My goal here to get as much good quality sounds as I can and still be able to get high SPL levels out of them. I listen to just about every type of music out there depending on mood. I love to relax with some good jazz or clasical but on the other hand I sometimes have small parties with people taking turns DJing on the computer and slamming out some dance and techno for other to enjoy.
I know this might seem like a far out idea but from what I have read about line arrays and modeling these using WinISD things are looking good. I know each one will be quit big, 12 cubes or so. Total cost for all the drivers and amps will be less then $550. Wood is cheap and time is......well thats the hard part. I Love quility audio and have done a few DIY home audio speakers in the past. Then I get into car audio big time and did not have the time for DIY home stuff anymore. Well I think the time is right for another DIY home setup again. I GOT THAT ITCH AGAIN!
THanks in advance for any advice on this crazzzzy idea!!
RICK
Two matching towers each using 4 of these subs per tower. To drive each tower I was looking to use one ofthese for each tower . After modeling I was looking at about a 12 cubic foot tower slot vented on the back bottom of each tower. I guess my queations is what do you think about this. I am not sure if WinISD takes into account for room responce and the like. How do you think it would sound. I have a DefTech PF 1500 now and I really love is big powerful sound. Its still can do music very well but really shines on movies but I am just wanting something different.
My goal here to get as much good quality sounds as I can and still be able to get high SPL levels out of them. I listen to just about every type of music out there depending on mood. I love to relax with some good jazz or clasical but on the other hand I sometimes have small parties with people taking turns DJing on the computer and slamming out some dance and techno for other to enjoy.
I know this might seem like a far out idea but from what I have read about line arrays and modeling these using WinISD things are looking good. I know each one will be quit big, 12 cubes or so. Total cost for all the drivers and amps will be less then $550. Wood is cheap and time is......well thats the hard part. I Love quility audio and have done a few DIY home audio speakers in the past. Then I get into car audio big time and did not have the time for DIY home stuff anymore. Well I think the time is right for another DIY home setup again. I GOT THAT ITCH AGAIN!
THanks in advance for any advice on this crazzzzy idea!!
RICK
Genesis Technology make/make a speaker system with seperate bass enclosures and mid/high panels.
The system comprises a dedicated amplifier box with inbuilt <120 Hz filter and 12 channels each about 350w rms - ie 4000W total from 16 Hz through 120 Hz, and two enclosures 7+ feet high each fitted with 6 x 12" carbon fibre cone woofers.
There are 12 x 4 wire speakon cables connecting to the amplifier.
You supply your own mid/high amplifiers.
These 12 woofers are servo driven (4 wire connection) and together provide the biggest strongest cleanest bass that you have ever imagined, let alone heard.
This is an extreme example of course (USD$135,000 !!!), but illistrates that there is very much to be gained by running 6 bass drivers per bass cabinet.
12 x 10" or 8" drivers in tall narrow/deep cabinets tuned correctly ought to provide all the Doof you, your DJ friends or your neighbours could ever want.
You will need more drivers and amplifier channels than you have budgeted for, but the costs are not too extreme.
Eric.
The system comprises a dedicated amplifier box with inbuilt <120 Hz filter and 12 channels each about 350w rms - ie 4000W total from 16 Hz through 120 Hz, and two enclosures 7+ feet high each fitted with 6 x 12" carbon fibre cone woofers.
There are 12 x 4 wire speakon cables connecting to the amplifier.
You supply your own mid/high amplifiers.
These 12 woofers are servo driven (4 wire connection) and together provide the biggest strongest cleanest bass that you have ever imagined, let alone heard.
This is an extreme example of course (USD$135,000 !!!), but illistrates that there is very much to be gained by running 6 bass drivers per bass cabinet.
12 x 10" or 8" drivers in tall narrow/deep cabinets tuned correctly ought to provide all the Doof you, your DJ friends or your neighbours could ever want.
You will need more drivers and amplifier channels than you have budgeted for, but the costs are not too extreme.
Eric.
Attachments
Yes, I knew Genisis did it along with a few others like Infinity. I have not found any smaller drivers that can get down very low for a small cost and still produce high SPL. I want to keep total cost of the drivers and amps at about what I could sell my old sub for, $500-$600. Thats my way of justifying such a monster sub setup,
.I have modeled quit a few over the past few days and so but the 295-490 12" dayton DVC sub seen to look the best. Modeling four per tower the responce is quit flat with an F3 of about 32Hz. Only bad thing is the enclosures would have to be quit large. I want to know what you think this will sound like in a room. Again I have been out of the home side of DIY audio so I am not quit sure if this will go low enough.
I am looking for other peoples opinions so feel free to jump in here. Also, does the WinISD software take into account room gains or is there a way to set it to do so. Feel free to model this setup and tell me what you think.
THANKS!
Rick
.I have modeled quit a few over the past few days and so but the 295-490 12" dayton DVC sub seen to look the best. Modeling four per tower the responce is quit flat with an F3 of about 32Hz. Only bad thing is the enclosures would have to be quit large. I want to know what you think this will sound like in a room. Again I have been out of the home side of DIY audio so I am not quit sure if this will go low enough. I am looking for other peoples opinions so feel free to jump in here. Also, does the WinISD software take into account room gains or is there a way to set it to do so. Feel free to model this setup and tell me what you think.
THANKS!
Rick
Thanks for the replay.
Are you talking about using the main line array fullrange? I was thinking that it would be better to not overstress a bunch of 5.25" speakers and just biuld some sub towers. I guess the theory I am looking to test here is that a good number of cheaper drivers setup right and not overstressed can sound pretty barn good and be able to high some pretty high SPL as well. I was planning on biulding two close to fullrange towers using 8 5.25" drivers per tower and of course tweeters too. I have been reading as much as I can about line arrays and I think for the wide range of listening I do that this concept would work out great.
More input would be great here.
Rick
Are you talking about using the main line array fullrange? I was thinking that it would be better to not overstress a bunch of 5.25" speakers and just biuld some sub towers. I guess the theory I am looking to test here is that a good number of cheaper drivers setup right and not overstressed can sound pretty barn good and be able to high some pretty high SPL as well. I was planning on biulding two close to fullrange towers using 8 5.25" drivers per tower and of course tweeters too. I have been reading as much as I can about line arrays and I think for the wide range of listening I do that this concept would work out great.
More input would be great here.
Rick
If you are going to use this for a sub, have you considered arranging the drivers in a square pattern instead of a vertical pattern? By square pattern, I mean this:
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Reason? Four speakers arranged like that apparently increase sensitivity by ~6 dB over a single speaker-that is to say, four 90 dB speakers arranged in the above patter become one 96 dB speaker. Four 90 dB speakers arranged vertically become one 92 dB speaker. You get 4 dB or so extra output for the same power input by arranging them in a square pattern.
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Reason? Four speakers arranged like that apparently increase sensitivity by ~6 dB over a single speaker-that is to say, four 90 dB speakers arranged in the above patter become one 96 dB speaker. Four 90 dB speakers arranged vertically become one 92 dB speaker. You get 4 dB or so extra output for the same power input by arranging them in a square pattern.
Thanks for the sugestion. I was under the impression that line arrays would do about the same thing. Plus I dont have that much floor space for that config. That is one reason why I was going up in the first place, LOL.
Main think I was looking for here was if anyone had any comments of the in room responce of this setup but again any sujections are welcome.
Rick
Main think I was looking for here was if anyone had any comments of the in room responce of this setup but again any sujections are welcome.
Rick
smaller subs
If you want a good speaker for a line array sub that wouldn't have to be so freakin' huge you could try the MCM 55-1170 6" woofer it'll go down to 26 hz or so in a 1 cubic ft box and has an spl of 92db and the best part is they only cost about 10 bucks. I have a few of them and the make some great bass. as for your wide range line array have you considered the Tangband drivers also quite inexpensive and they wouldn't require tweeters.
If you want a good speaker for a line array sub that wouldn't have to be so freakin' huge you could try the MCM 55-1170 6" woofer it'll go down to 26 hz or so in a 1 cubic ft box and has an spl of 92db and the best part is they only cost about 10 bucks. I have a few of them and the make some great bass. as for your wide range line array have you considered the Tangband drivers also quite inexpensive and they wouldn't require tweeters.
brsanko,
My plan was to use either those drivers are the ones almost just like them that Parts Express sells, still modeling the options. My plan was to use 8 drivers per fullrange tower. Still not sure if I am going to go open baffle, sealed, or vented yet. I think I am going toward open baffle. I have bipoler DefTech speakers all around now and really like that sound. I am still up in the air about tweeters as well but thought it would be crazy to get about 50 of these, 25 a side mounted from the rear of the front baffle and crossing them over pretty high. I know this goes against the theories of LA but I futured I would give it a try. I did find a guy that did just that and according to him they sounded give, you never know though. Maybe playing with the phase plugs also.
I have been reading everything I can find on LAs but just about all have said it might be a good idea, specailly for HT use, to have some really good subs. As I stated in my first post my listening situations very quit a bit. THere are times when I love to just relax by myself with some good quality music and other time I truely do ask a lot out of my setup.
I have been thinking way to much laterly on this whole project. Here are a few more ideas I have come up with.....keep in mind I like to do things a little out of the norm. I will probably be powering the fullrange towers with my belove Nikko Alpha amps, one stereo amp per tower, one channel for midbass, one of highs (the reasson for using this way is coming). I know alot of people would probably frown on these amps but they sound better then my Pioneer Elite receiver and way better then my old Adcom GFA-2 (big bright tin can, LOL) but I have been quit surprised with there sound as have other that have auditioned them so I am stick with them, at least for now. Of course the subs are going to be active so I was thinking of mounting the sub amp and the fullrange amps in the lower section of the fullrange tower. It would not be the hard for me to modify the Nikko amps so that they would fit nicely on the plate like a sub amp and just mount the triod in the bottom. I could also wip up an active crossover to make it easier to play with OX pionts and gains, maybe a few simple clipping inducators and of cousre you cant forget the ever so high end blue LED. Basically intergrat everything nicely into one simple but flexable package. I think this would help simplify things a bit: one singal in, one AC plug per side. Then all I would needs is a nice cable from the fullrange towers to the subs.
Again I know this is alittle crazy sounding but the more I have been thinking about it and researching it the more I really would like to try it. I might take awhile and go throught some upgrades but that is half the fun, right?
Thanks agian for the responces....hope more are to come.
PS - any comments of my sub design, specifically in room responce!?!?!
My plan was to use either those drivers are the ones almost just like them that Parts Express sells, still modeling the options. My plan was to use 8 drivers per fullrange tower. Still not sure if I am going to go open baffle, sealed, or vented yet. I think I am going toward open baffle. I have bipoler DefTech speakers all around now and really like that sound. I am still up in the air about tweeters as well but thought it would be crazy to get about 50 of these, 25 a side mounted from the rear of the front baffle and crossing them over pretty high. I know this goes against the theories of LA but I futured I would give it a try. I did find a guy that did just that and according to him they sounded give, you never know though. Maybe playing with the phase plugs also.
I have been reading everything I can find on LAs but just about all have said it might be a good idea, specailly for HT use, to have some really good subs. As I stated in my first post my listening situations very quit a bit. THere are times when I love to just relax by myself with some good quality music and other time I truely do ask a lot out of my setup.
I have been thinking way to much laterly on this whole project. Here are a few more ideas I have come up with.....keep in mind I like to do things a little out of the norm. I will probably be powering the fullrange towers with my belove Nikko Alpha amps, one stereo amp per tower, one channel for midbass, one of highs (the reasson for using this way is coming). I know alot of people would probably frown on these amps but they sound better then my Pioneer Elite receiver and way better then my old Adcom GFA-2 (big bright tin can, LOL) but I have been quit surprised with there sound as have other that have auditioned them so I am stick with them, at least for now. Of course the subs are going to be active so I was thinking of mounting the sub amp and the fullrange amps in the lower section of the fullrange tower. It would not be the hard for me to modify the Nikko amps so that they would fit nicely on the plate like a sub amp and just mount the triod in the bottom. I could also wip up an active crossover to make it easier to play with OX pionts and gains, maybe a few simple clipping inducators and of cousre you cant forget the ever so high end blue LED. Basically intergrat everything nicely into one simple but flexable package. I think this would help simplify things a bit: one singal in, one AC plug per side. Then all I would needs is a nice cable from the fullrange towers to the subs.
Again I know this is alittle crazy sounding but the more I have been thinking about it and researching it the more I really would like to try it. I might take awhile and go throught some upgrades but that is half the fun, right?
Thanks agian for the responces....hope more are to come.
PS - any comments of my sub design, specifically in room responce!?!?!
I do know that tall thin arrays or electrostatics are supposed to have a characteristic where, if you double the distance you are standing from them, the droppoff is only 3 dB instead of 6 dB the way a normal speaker would.
However, I am not sure that would apply to a sub. The reason I am not sure is that I think that the line has to be a wavelength or a significant portion of a wavelength for that -3 dB effect to work, and a 100 Hz tone has a wavelength of 11 feet or so.
So any array you build would not be a significant portion of a wavelength in the low bass notes.
Again, speculation on my part, but you asked for responses.
However, I am not sure that would apply to a sub. The reason I am not sure is that I think that the line has to be a wavelength or a significant portion of a wavelength for that -3 dB effect to work, and a 100 Hz tone has a wavelength of 11 feet or so.
So any array you build would not be a significant portion of a wavelength in the low bass notes.
Again, speculation on my part, but you asked for responses.
Thanks for your reply.
I guess at this piont it does not matter one way or another. I am sure I will have enough SPL out of the two bass tower to overcome any lack of gain.
Main queation now is what the subs will sound like. I think I should just start a new post and ask again. Seems the Line Array Sub title is throughing people off the piont I was trying to get, which is what will they sound like in a room!!!!
I guess at this piont it does not matter one way or another. I am sure I will have enough SPL out of the two bass tower to overcome any lack of gain.
Main queation now is what the subs will sound like. I think I should just start a new post and ask again. Seems the Line Array Sub title is throughing people off the piont I was trying to get, which is what will they sound like in a room!!!!
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