3 way or 2way

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Hi,

2 ways have stuffed 3 ways for many years, in terms of value
for money, simply because 2 way bass/mids are almost as
good in the midrange as a seperate cone midrange unit.

Best is a stupid question, it applies to next to nothing.
What is better generally is a far more sensible question.

rgds, sreten.

The Event Opal is a design taking 2 ways to its limits.
 
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In my view, 2-ways can create very high quality speakers with great simplicity ... IF you can find woofers and tweeter that match and give you the range you want.

But, any woofer or Mid-Bass driver is going to have limitations. If you want deep bass, then the midrange comes down with it making it that much harder to find a tweeter that will go deep enough to match. If you choose the drivers so the Mid-Bass and Tweeter line up, then likely you sacrificed some bass to get that perfect match.

Typically in a 2-way, you are pushing the Mid-Bass and the Tweeter very close to their functional limits.

However, in a true 3-way, Woofer - Mid-Range - Tweeter, you typically do not have this problem. Each driver covers a narrow enough range to be able to cover it easily. No driver is really pressed to its limits. However, the crossover gets more complicated. Further, because of phase shift in a 12dB/Octave crossover, either the Midrange and/or the Tweeter will have to be wired out of phase with the woofer. So, yes, 3-ways have both their advantages in that it is easier to find optimized drivers for your application and their disadvantages in that they are more complicated.

I prefer 3-way for the ease of finding drivers that will easily work together and stay well within their optimal working range. But, if you are willing to sacrifice just a bit of low bass, there is no denying the quality of sound of many 2-way speakers.

Now to complicate things even further, what is a 3-way to the old guard is not what a 3-way is to modern folk. To me a 3-way implies Woofer, Mid-Range, Tweeter. But in the modern world, a 3-way is far more likely to be Low-Bass, Mid-Bass, Tweeter.

To illustrate, a W/M/T 3-way, might cross at 800hz and 5,000hz.

A modern LB/MB/T 3-way would cross at 300hz and 2500hz. Essentially creating an extended bass 2-way. In this new LB/MB/T model, you can choose a low bass with no consideration for its Mid-Bass abilities. You can choose the Mid-Bass will little concern for its Low-Bass and instead concentrate on a Mid-Bass that will work well with the Tweeter.

If you can find matching or mating Drivers, 2-way can be stellar. But in a 3-way, either W/M/T or LB/MB/T, you have a much easier time finding drivers that will easily mate while staying well within their optimum working range. But the trade off is more complicated Crossovers and tuning.

Now, adding one more level of complication, is the 2.5-way. This is essentially at 2-way design that is distinct for the modern LB/MB 3-way I spoke of before though they may look identical. So, we start with essentially a 2-way speaker than we add a second woofer to run in parallel with the first bass driver, both covering the low-bass region. The Second Low-Bass driver is the Half-Way aspect because that driver does not have an exclusive frequency range all its own. It shares the low-bass with the main bass driver.

Every aspect of Audio is a compromise. You are always trading something for something else. So, what you are willing to trade, in order to get something you want more?

Steve/bluewizard
 
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can the best 2 way beat the best 3 way?

No. But the best 3-way is more expensive than the best 2-way.

2-way could possibly be the best only in uncommon design, such as using horn where size is abnormal, or SPL is not a concern. That's an apple-to-orange comparison.

The hardest part to achieve with 2-way is a flat response from 20Hz to 30kHz (with sufficient SPL), which is parts dependent. Technically, it is difficult to create "real" sound with small drivers. But we have seen two way designs with 15" woofer and horn tweeter.
 
music soothes the savage beast
Joined 2004
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I am sure we will not agree what should represent best 2-way...
so there is no way to see if its better than some (best) 3-way


how about this one for 2-way?
 

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Just another Moderator
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I think that the question begs another question... If the Best three way is not better than the best two way, why would anyone ever bother with a three way ;)

A more sensible question may be: Am I more likely to be able to design a good sounding two way than a good sounding three way. The answer of course depends on a lot of variables so there would need to be some constraints put around the question.

Tony.
 
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I think that the question begs another question... If the Best three way is not better than the best two way, why would anyone ever bother with a three way ;)

A more sensible question may be: Am I more likely to be able to design a good sounding two way than a good sounding three way.

Tony.

you could also ask if a 2 way isnt better than 3 way why do speakers like magico mini exist? The answer as to which is better doesnt seem obvious.
 
if a 2 way isnt better than 3 way why do speakers like magico mini exist? The answer as to which is better doesnt seem obvious.
Those who own Magico mini might also own a bigger 3-way for music with a lot of bass content. Mini 2-way may be better in imaging and vocal, but for those who love music with bass content??

Another reason is because size matters. Not because of space requirement, but we want something as small as computer speaker but sounds like a real concert.

It is important to know that if you like bass and high SPL, better for you to go with 3-way and if you like midrange, imaging and vocal and listen in relaxed SPL, better to go with 2-way.

If you want both, well welcome aboard. Little discussion related to this situation in the internet.
 
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I think you need to set some limits on what you mean by 2-way and 3-way. Are we talking common bookshelf and floorstanding speakers, or are we talking about speaker in the extreme, like for example, Voice of the Theater

http://www.audioworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/altec.lansing.a7.oblique.gif

Legend Reborn: Altec Lansing Reintroduces Legacy A7 ‘Voice Of The Theatre’ Speaker

Nice speaker, but not very practical.

As other have pointed out, 2-way speakers in the extreme can be very good, assuming you have a very substantial space to use them in.

However, normal common bookshelf and floorstanding projects are more within the realm of possibilities, and, as I said before, each has its pluses and minuses. It is easier to find drivers for a 3-way system because each speaker only has to cover a much smaller range.

If you are willing to make some compromises, then a 2-way bookshelf speakers can certainly sound good.

I think in a more practical sense, it gets down to what you want and need, combined with your available budget, and your available skills and tools.

Anyone who has ever heard a multi-way floorstanding speaker knows that they can sound very good, with deep bass, clear mids, and clean highs. But, they may not be cheap.

Equally there are many bookshelf and floorstanding 2-ways that can sound absolutely stellar - unbelievably clear and strong presence and wide sound stage. But expect to pay for that sound quality.

You should have no problem paying for truly stellar speakers in the range of $5000/pr to $15,000/pr. But, if you really want to go nuts, you should have no problem spending $30,000/pr to $150,000/pr.

Rather than discuss the merits and demerits of 2-way vs 3-way, what you need to concentrate on is the job you need to do. What you hope to accomplish will guide you more than general discussion of design.

First come the requirements, then from that comes the design. You don't build a 2-way with a single 4" bass driver if you plan to throw a RAVE. But then, for a desktop computer, you probably don't need 15" 2-way PA speakers.

The best speaker isn't a 2-way or a 3-way, it is the speaker that best serves your needs and your requirements, and comes in reasonably within your budget. Those are the critical factors.

Just one man's opinion.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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diyAudio Moderator
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Things like running the drivers to the limits of their bandwidth, and having more than one cross point are more or less technicalities. Within reason a crossover can be designed (electrically and otherwise) to effectively disappear.
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
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I think that the question begs another question... If the Best three way is not better than the best two way, why would anyone ever bother with a three way ;)

A more sensible question may be: Am I more likely to be able to design a good sounding two way than a good sounding three way. The answer of course depends on a lot of variables so there would need to be some constraints put around the question.

There are a lot of choices of compromises that have to be made... if we are saying 2-way or 3-way, one should also suggest 1-way, some of todays FRs are extrodinary.

dave
 
I've deliberated over this for years. The q is really hypothetical. With unlimited funds, a two way would meet/exceed almost anyone's expectations.

I've just finished a large Yuichi wood horn, which can be used in a 2, 3 or (in my case) a 4 way system.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/242262-pics-diy-yuichi-290hz-wood-horn.html

Yuichi himself debates the pros and cons of 2 and multi-way projects here -

ƒz�[ƒ“ƒXƒs�[ƒJ�[

Dave D is also correct...after years of dabbling, I bet many 'philes simply want to go back to a clean and 'simple' single source driver/horn with nice amp....think Feastrex, Voxativ, plus Dave's excellent products.

However, don't tell me the attached pic wouldn't do it for most audiophiles...!
 

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