My parents would like a pair of speakers to replace some old boom boxes they have that are about to die of old age! They want the same size, which is approx 1m high x 450mm x 350mm and are a 3 way TMWW with 10" woofers.
The budget is fairly modest, I would be aiming for AUD $500 - 1000 total cost.
Given the size it seems like an opportunity to go for a relatively high efficiency design. I'd like to achieve an F3 of 30 - 40 Hz, 2 or 3 way design using drivers preferably not difficult to get in Australia. Also drivers which are not overly difficult to design a crossover for, ie. relatively flat response, no nasty cone breakup!
All suggestions welcome
The budget is fairly modest, I would be aiming for AUD $500 - 1000 total cost.
Given the size it seems like an opportunity to go for a relatively high efficiency design. I'd like to achieve an F3 of 30 - 40 Hz, 2 or 3 way design using drivers preferably not difficult to get in Australia. Also drivers which are not overly difficult to design a crossover for, ie. relatively flat response, no nasty cone breakup!
All suggestions welcome
My speakers cost like.. umm.. money....
Woofers - $160
tweeters - $64
Midranges - $20 (heh)
Towers - $90 (including finish)
http://home.iprimus.com.au/jlstanley/Speakers/Index.html
I am yet to do crossovers.. but these really aren't suitable for you.. they are WAY too hard to get a good amount of power into unless you have a 200watt into 8 ohm amp, or you bi/tri/quad(?) amp them...
thats $334 so far.. lol all I wanted was speakers that would rattle the windows, and they do this quite well.. when you give them enough power...
the woofers are Venom brand 8inch from Jaycar...
the tweeters are Peerless, which I got cheap...
the midranges are Digitor, from DickSmiths, I think they are total rubbish, but they were reduced from $50 a pair to $20, and they look really nice
the towers are 25mm MDF finished in gloss black... made at school, so all the materials were cheap..
Woofers - $160
tweeters - $64
Midranges - $20 (heh)
Towers - $90 (including finish)
http://home.iprimus.com.au/jlstanley/Speakers/Index.html
I am yet to do crossovers.. but these really aren't suitable for you.. they are WAY too hard to get a good amount of power into unless you have a 200watt into 8 ohm amp, or you bi/tri/quad(?) amp them...
thats $334 so far.. lol all I wanted was speakers that would rattle the windows, and they do this quite well..
when you give them enough power... the woofers are Venom brand 8inch from Jaycar...
the tweeters are Peerless, which I got cheap...
the midranges are Digitor, from DickSmiths, I think they are total rubbish, but they were reduced from $50 a pair to $20, and they look really nice
the towers are 25mm MDF finished in gloss black... made at school, so all the materials were cheap..
They are 960mm high x 420mm wide x 360mm deep. Constructed of particleboard 18mm - not very rigid, not braced, with cheap vinyl veneer - not what I would consider worth keeping.
Internal dimensions are 924 x 384 x 324 ... 115 litres
The size and shape fits in with their existing cabinet so they want it similar size. The only thing done well with these speakers IMO is the grille, and since I don't particularly like doing grilles, I'm inclined to keep the front dimensions the same and adjust the depth as required.
Centauri,
I had a look at the Dai Chi woofer. It looks like a reasonably smooth response, although it does seem to want a bigger box. Have you used this driver? Do you consider it suitable for hifi use? My parents are familiar with my speakers which have Vifa P17 drivers, and they may not be satisfied if the sound is significantly less refined. Any thoughts?
I looked at some of the tweeters at Wes Components but the cheaper ones didn't look too good. The Peerless HDS tweeter looks good or possibly a vifa tweeter.
The amp is an old Akai, quite a good amp with about 50 watts of power.
regards,
Paul
Internal dimensions are 924 x 384 x 324 ... 115 litres
The size and shape fits in with their existing cabinet so they want it similar size. The only thing done well with these speakers IMO is the grille, and since I don't particularly like doing grilles, I'm inclined to keep the front dimensions the same and adjust the depth as required.
Centauri,
I had a look at the Dai Chi woofer. It looks like a reasonably smooth response, although it does seem to want a bigger box. Have you used this driver? Do you consider it suitable for hifi use? My parents are familiar with my speakers which have Vifa P17 drivers, and they may not be satisfied if the sound is significantly less refined. Any thoughts?
I looked at some of the tweeters at Wes Components but the cheaper ones didn't look too good. The Peerless HDS tweeter looks good or possibly a vifa tweeter.
The amp is an old Akai, quite a good amp with about 50 watts of power.
regards,
Paul
never heard of a peerless HDS tweeter. They have a very good mid/woofer range that's called hds
The WA10 tweeter from peerless is extremely good value. I just read a test repport and the peerless beat many tweeters that cost x times as much.
Why not use a peerless CSX as mid/woofer? also fairly cheap and probably just as good or better then those Vifa's you used.
The WA10 tweeter from peerless is extremely good value. I just read a test repport and the peerless beat many tweeters that cost x times as much.
Why not use a peerless CSX as mid/woofer? also fairly cheap and probably just as good or better then those Vifa's you used.
paulspencer said:
115 litres is a whopping sized speaker.
If vifa appeals you could use this :
http://www.speakerbuilding.com/content/1030/index.php
possibly with a different bass driver, but similar R, L and sensitivity.
http://www.arsenal.net/speakers/ar/documents/NHT 1259 Frequently Asked Questions.htm
If it doesn't appeal you could do a lot worse than using the
crossover design.
sreten.
As Al Bundy used to say "BIGGUNS" (I am sure that with nelson's sense of humor, he gets the joke) -- here's the J-LO design from PASSDIY -- it's big and uses one expensive driver:
http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/j-low.pdf
these are available from:
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=JX92S
i don't know where they're sold in the US, OZ, etc.
http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/j-low.pdf
these are available from:
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=JX92S
i don't know where they're sold in the US, OZ, etc.
For straters why build a 3way?
A 2way will save a lot in expense due to less drivers & less complex xover.
My recommendation would be for a MTM using 6.5" Vifas or Peerless HDS - pick a nice tweeter to match.
Just becuase they had some old 3way boom box built in the days when more was better - remember 4way 5driver systems - yuk!
Far better to have less drivers of higher quality than more cheap drivers...
BTW there is a Peerless HDS tweeter its mde to order for WES components (an Australian electronics supplier).
WES are probably the cheapest source of Vifa/Peerless/Scanspeak as Im pretty sure they are the distributor.
A 2way will save a lot in expense due to less drivers & less complex xover.
My recommendation would be for a MTM using 6.5" Vifas or Peerless HDS - pick a nice tweeter to match.
Just becuase they had some old 3way boom box built in the days when more was better - remember 4way 5driver systems - yuk!
Far better to have less drivers of higher quality than more cheap drivers...
BTW there is a Peerless HDS tweeter its mde to order for WES components (an Australian electronics supplier).
WES are probably the cheapest source of Vifa/Peerless/Scanspeak as Im pretty sure they are the distributor.
DIY peter:
I think the Peerless HDS tweeter is only available in Australia, it was developed for Stones Sound Studio in Sydney, which I think may be associated with Wes Components in some way. It has high efficiency 93 db, and was designed to go with the HDS midbass drivers.
HDS / CSX drivers have a good motor design optimised for low distortion, but at this point I'm also considering a higher efficiency approach. These drivers are designed to work in a small box, but if a bigger box is acceptable, then the high efficiency path has a lot of promise. My reluctance is due to the unfamiliarity of budget high efficiency drivers.
Another thing I'm tempted to do with this project is to try out some drivers that I'm interested in for some of my own projects - like the Vifa Xt tweeter, Vifa MG glass fibre cones, Vifa M18 or HDS drivers.
Michael:
These are good drivers but I'm most interested in drivers that I already wanted to try out, or high efficiency drivers. I know that PHL and JBL are very good, but also too expensive! I'm suspicious of Dai Chi. I'd go the CSX over the 12" peerless and you know why!!!
Jack:
I had a jordan phase a while ago, it's a very intersting driver. But don't you find it strange, the idea of a very small driver in a very big box? Novel perhaps, but I wasn't thinking THAT big!
Ap:
I must admit I'm not in general in favour of the idea of a passive 3 way design. My preference is for 3 way biamped with a sub for HT use. In this case, a simple 2 way with small midbass drivers does not really match such a large box. Speakers are smaller now due to fashion and more powerful amplifiers. But there is nothing wrong with a properly designed 3 or 4 way speaker, if the drivers are of good quality. Higher efficiency, higher output and increased midrange clarity are some of the advantages. My sister has an old pair of 2 way wharfedale speakers with a 12" sealed woofer. They are exceptionally clear and articulate, although very ordinary looking. My sister really doesn't know how good they are. I can imagine them being sold cheap at some 2nd hand place, yet they could probably hold their own against AUD $1-2k speakers.
Still, I would prefer it to sound good with low efficiency than be a crappy sounding 3 way high efficiency design.
Any recommendations on low cost efficient drivers?
regards,
Paul
I think the Peerless HDS tweeter is only available in Australia, it was developed for Stones Sound Studio in Sydney, which I think may be associated with Wes Components in some way. It has high efficiency 93 db, and was designed to go with the HDS midbass drivers.
HDS / CSX drivers have a good motor design optimised for low distortion, but at this point I'm also considering a higher efficiency approach. These drivers are designed to work in a small box, but if a bigger box is acceptable, then the high efficiency path has a lot of promise. My reluctance is due to the unfamiliarity of budget high efficiency drivers.
Another thing I'm tempted to do with this project is to try out some drivers that I'm interested in for some of my own projects - like the Vifa Xt tweeter, Vifa MG glass fibre cones, Vifa M18 or HDS drivers.
Michael:
These are good drivers but I'm most interested in drivers that I already wanted to try out, or high efficiency drivers. I know that PHL and JBL are very good, but also too expensive! I'm suspicious of Dai Chi. I'd go the CSX over the 12" peerless and you know why!!!
Jack:
I had a jordan phase a while ago, it's a very intersting driver. But don't you find it strange, the idea of a very small driver in a very big box? Novel perhaps, but I wasn't thinking THAT big!
Ap:
I must admit I'm not in general in favour of the idea of a passive 3 way design. My preference is for 3 way biamped with a sub for HT use. In this case, a simple 2 way with small midbass drivers does not really match such a large box. Speakers are smaller now due to fashion and more powerful amplifiers. But there is nothing wrong with a properly designed 3 or 4 way speaker, if the drivers are of good quality. Higher efficiency, higher output and increased midrange clarity are some of the advantages. My sister has an old pair of 2 way wharfedale speakers with a 12" sealed woofer. They are exceptionally clear and articulate, although very ordinary looking. My sister really doesn't know how good they are. I can imagine them being sold cheap at some 2nd hand place, yet they could probably hold their own against AUD $1-2k speakers.
Still, I would prefer it to sound good with low efficiency than be a crappy sounding 3 way high efficiency design.
Any recommendations on low cost efficient drivers?
regards,
Paul
I agree on the 2way vs 3way thing.
Its just that the original speakers are a pair of old boom boxes for his parents - I assume they arent audiophiles with high end gear.
So the idea of a 3way for the extra money and effort I think would be lost on them.
As for inexpensive efficient drivers, Seas come to mind.
Its just that the original speakers are a pair of old boom boxes for his parents - I assume they arent audiophiles with high end gear.
So the idea of a 3way for the extra money and effort I think would be lost on them.
As for inexpensive efficient drivers, Seas come to mind.
ProAC!!! 
lol
errrm, yes just a bit expensive I'd say!
Lots of drivers? Well, not just for the sake of using lots of drivers. It is more a case of matching drivers to the size available. I doubt that in this case, the best response would be to use drivers that only need a small box, as that's not taking fulll advantage of the size of this thing which is already determined.
lolerrrm, yes just a bit expensive I'd say!
Lots of drivers? Well, not just for the sake of using lots of drivers. It is more a case of matching drivers to the size available. I doubt that in this case, the best response would be to use drivers that only need a small box, as that's not taking fulll advantage of the size of this thing which is already determined.
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