Hey all. I'm really intrigued by the Kairos and am definitely considering building it. However, for my application, I originally planned a smaller speaker (probably with a 5 1/4" driver). Are there any kits that can compete with the sound quality of the Kairos, but come in a smaller package? They will be paired with a nice sub, so I'm not overly concerned with bass response as long as it's low enough to blend.
If there's nothing out there as a kit, then I may just end up going with the Kairos anyway, but just wondering if anyone knew of anything competitive, but a bit smaller.
Thanks!
Nick
If there's nothing out there as a kit, then I may just end up going with the Kairos anyway, but just wondering if anyone knew of anything competitive, but a bit smaller.
Thanks!
Nick
I guess the best question is, what is your listening experience and background? I find people on here recommend very high-end kits and components without knowing if the end user will appreciate their unique sound. Note I did not say superior sound. There are non quantitative reasons why 3 loudspeakers with a flat frequency response will be preferred by 3 different people as being the best.
This said, what is your application, and what exactly drew you to the Kairos? I ask because the Overnight Sensations kit is similar in size, but 1/9 the price. I can attest to its nice sound, and it's easily tweaked to fit your own sonic preference.
This said, what is your application, and what exactly drew you to the Kairos? I ask because the Overnight Sensations kit is similar in size, but 1/9 the price. I can attest to its nice sound, and it's easily tweaked to fit your own sonic preference.
I was drawn to the Kairos because I wanted to build something that can compete with the best in bookshelf speakers. I've designed and built my own before that are quite competent and sound far better than anything I've heard retail up to about $2500/pr. However, I don't have the ability/time to do all the testing and measuring to insure I'm using the drivers to their fullest potential so I wanted to do something with some nicer drivers and make sure I'm using them optimally.
I'd say preferences are for a very open, detailed, and transparent speaker. I prefer a pretty neutral speaker - not a lot of warmth or coloration, but maybe a slight edge to high-end sparkle.
I'd say preferences are for a very open, detailed, and transparent speaker. I prefer a pretty neutral speaker - not a lot of warmth or coloration, but maybe a slight edge to high-end sparkle.
This is Kairos by Jeff Bagby, kit 899$ Kairos (Pair) datasheet http://meniscusaudio.com/images/The%20Kairos%20Monitor%20Speaker%20by%20Jeff%20Bagby.pdf
SB Satori 6½" woofer and T29 ring tweeter. xo 1800Hz
Actually a classic design without waveguide, BR at 35Hz largish box. I think that there are tens of similar really good 2-way monitors around, just a matter of taste and intuition. Kairos should fit Nick's needs very well.
Overnight Sensation with a 4" woofer is not a real alternative! http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-706
But Modula MT XE or ER18DXT are
SB Satori 6½" woofer and T29 ring tweeter. xo 1800Hz
Actually a classic design without waveguide, BR at 35Hz largish box. I think that there are tens of similar really good 2-way monitors around, just a matter of taste and intuition. Kairos should fit Nick's needs very well.
Overnight Sensation with a 4" woofer is not a real alternative! http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-706
But Modula MT XE or ER18DXT are
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I did not say they were an alternative; I was using them to illustrate a point. I said that they're another speaker kit on the market that's simple and straight forward. If the OP has limited DIY experience, then I see no reason to go straight to the holy grail. Hence, I asked what his background and preference is, and indeed it is extensive.
Zaph|Audio - ZD5 - Scan Speak 15W8530K00 and Vifa XT25
This will compete altho I think both the Satori and the T29 measure a little better than the Scan and the Vifa. Still reference level quality in a smaller package.
I run them sealed and crossed to a sub at 80Hz. They sound fantastic. I do think that the extreme lengths I went to on the cabinet are also contributing.
This will compete altho I think both the Satori and the T29 measure a little better than the Scan and the Vifa. Still reference level quality in a smaller package.
I run them sealed and crossed to a sub at 80Hz. They sound fantastic. I do think that the extreme lengths I went to on the cabinet are also contributing.
These will compete (but still lose) but they fit the smaller form factor:
Continuum, Pr
Piccolo
Speedster *
Stance (Pair)
Continuum, Pr
Piccolo
Speedster *
Stance (Pair)
I would really like to see polars of that speaker. He gives lip service to off-axis response but doesn't document much of it. There's a power response graph but it isn't measured, only calculated, and also it is in a format that isn't comparable to most other data online.Jeff's Satori monitor is way better than the ZD5. there is a very smooth luscious 3d sound stage
EDIT: Also, if he used a waveguide on the TW29R, he would:
a) get more uniform off-axis response
b) not have to use a sloped baffle
b) get lower distortion
c) get more SPL
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For what is worth Jeff Bagby also has a variant of the Kairos which do not require the slanted baffle. This version is called the Adelphos. Meniscus Audio has a kit at:
Adelphos / Pair
The downside is that the kit cost is $80 more than the Kairos.
Adelphos / Pair
The downside is that the kit cost is $80 more than the Kairos.
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This was a project he designed for use as a kit at Meniscus, and therefore, he is limited to what he can and can't portray as info about the project.
It's a transient-perfect design, and has VERY shallow slopes to achieve this setup, and not really any other tweeters would work for this design as the TW29R does.
I agree with Jim in that there is another option called Adelphos for flat baffles.
BUT- the reason the kit is sloped is to align the centers for the TP design. TP designs have really nice off-axis responses to begin with. The TW29R already has VERY VERY (notice 2 of them) low HD to start with, so I don't know that the lowered HD would really be that useful as it's already a non-issue. As to room filling sound/output, I don't think it's an issue if he can fill a very large conference room in a hotel with these.
Really- this is a design that can almost do it all.
Wolf
I do have one question for those who know more about these things than me.....
Would this be a design where having an active crossover would actually be worse that the very well designed passive crossover?
I know that you could do an active design with shallow slopes and I am usually a fan of active crossovers - mainly due to damping factors, much steeper slopes needed for correct implementation of drivers etc, but I wonder if that would entirely defeat the objective with this particular design?
Would this be a design where having an active crossover would actually be worse that the very well designed passive crossover?
I know that you could do an active design with shallow slopes and I am usually a fan of active crossovers - mainly due to damping factors, much steeper slopes needed for correct implementation of drivers etc, but I wonder if that would entirely defeat the objective with this particular design?
I can vouch for Modula MT XE, built it this year. Peerless HDS (currrently SS D2608/9130) mated with waveguide. Very robust and good sounding tweeter. Paired with Seas ER18RNX which is very low distortion driver.
"Really nice" is relative. Would it be as nice as this?
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/media/...5fb8d27136e95/s/e/seos12_horizontal_1_4_1.jpg
Just an example. The lower corner frequency just goes up with a smaller waveguide.Doesn't apply:
LR2 slopes at 1,8kHz results in rather nice power response. Jeff shows calculated power response and a real in-room measurement (in the pdf). Directivity index grows slowly and is not very high, this is typical for a speaker with this size of drivers. A 5-6" waveguide helps a little, and only when mated right with a 5-6½" woofer!
A SEOS or any other large waveguide/horn should be matched with a 10" or 12" woofer around 100Hz to give smooth power response, also then it gives higher DI. We must always think of the whole system, not just it's components.
A SEOS or any other large waveguide/horn should be matched with a 10" or 12" woofer around 100Hz to give smooth power response, also then it gives higher DI. We must always think of the whole system, not just it's components.
Got a pair of Jeff Bagby's Kairos finished yesterday. I did some minor modifications to the enclosure including no vent as these will most likely get subwoofers, crossover in a separate cavity on the back and a bit more rounded off front panel. So far the sound is very smooth&well balanced with excellent imaging. For a large listening room a pair of subwoofers is probably wise, but the Satori can pump a lot of air before sounding strained.
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