Here are the finished loudspeakers. Finished with Dayton vinyl laminate. Worked out pretty good. Listening to them now, loud, to loosen up the woofers. They sound great to me. Very "live". Hopefully soon I can plot a response curve. That will have to wait until I get back from vacation in 3 weeks.
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SS transmission line sub. Complete build thread here
23W4557T002 transmission line sub - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com
23W4557T002 transmission line sub - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com
Attachments
Hold the phone...maybe time for a reality check.
I just don't understand why 'audiophiles', i.e. folks educated in the art that ought to know better than to simply buy into (i.e. accept the philosophy) what the profit oriented corporations try to spoon feed the masses, would, when they want quality bass reproduction, go to all the trouble of building a really nice box and put a driver in it which is far too small to move enough air to make bass without extreme levels of excusrion and acompanying distortion.
Corporate quest for profits, WAF and all that lean towards tiny speakers. The laws of physics and the quest for excellence lean towards big speakers.
R-Carpenter. That is a very nice looking small bass speaker cabinet. I'm not picking on you specifically. This is a general rant but it was your project that inspired my getting off my duff and speaking my mind on this issue.
I hope you will tell us more about that line array which looks interesting. The fact that you have built a speaker for midrange duties that requires far less SPL to be of equal volume to the bass notes using far more cone area than you did for the woofer, supportive of my treatise about your questionable choice of driver for the low notes.
If you plan to match a subwoofer to those line arrays in the same system you are going to need much larger subwoofer(s).
I just don't understand why 'audiophiles', i.e. folks educated in the art that ought to know better than to simply buy into (i.e. accept the philosophy) what the profit oriented corporations try to spoon feed the masses, would, when they want quality bass reproduction, go to all the trouble of building a really nice box and put a driver in it which is far too small to move enough air to make bass without extreme levels of excusrion and acompanying distortion.
Corporate quest for profits, WAF and all that lean towards tiny speakers. The laws of physics and the quest for excellence lean towards big speakers.
R-Carpenter. That is a very nice looking small bass speaker cabinet. I'm not picking on you specifically. This is a general rant but it was your project that inspired my getting off my duff and speaking my mind on this issue.
I hope you will tell us more about that line array which looks interesting. The fact that you have built a speaker for midrange duties that requires far less SPL to be of equal volume to the bass notes using far more cone area than you did for the woofer, supportive of my treatise about your questionable choice of driver for the low notes.
If you plan to match a subwoofer to those line arrays in the same system you are going to need much larger subwoofer(s).
The "Intimates"
A high end 2-way with SS drivers and a Sonus Faber Extrema 2nd order type acoustic xover. Cabs are 15L PE and closely resemble Polk's. Measured bass extension (vent included) is down below 30 hz. with a vented alignment. Off-axis response is also excellent.
The design objective was a no compromise pair of stand mounted mini-monitors to play in a relatively small listening room. Music most suited for these is high quality recordings of relatively small acoustic groups, singer/songwriters, string quartets, etc.. They are not rock speakers for sure!
PM me for design details...
A high end 2-way with SS drivers and a Sonus Faber Extrema 2nd order type acoustic xover. Cabs are 15L PE and closely resemble Polk's. Measured bass extension (vent included) is down below 30 hz. with a vented alignment. Off-axis response is also excellent.
The design objective was a no compromise pair of stand mounted mini-monitors to play in a relatively small listening room. Music most suited for these is high quality recordings of relatively small acoustic groups, singer/songwriters, string quartets, etc.. They are not rock speakers for sure!
PM me for design details...
Attachments
That is definitely a rant.
This sub is build for my own home theater set up. I live an an apartment and the living room is 14x22ft. So, I guess that answers the question of my questionable choice of drivers for a 2x3x1ft weighting close to 200 pounds small cabinet with f3 round about 33hz.
The line arrays will be shown on NY DIY which I am hosting, accompanied by a pair of transmission line loaded, 10" sub woofer peerless drivers, 4 per side having a flat terminus output 80hz to 18hz.
sure, ev dh7 compression on an ev hr90 horn, 24db/octave LR active crossover @ 750hz (with a bunch of high end eq), woofers are eminence 15lf magnum run in a jbl 4508a box (8ft3 with 1 port stuffed, making 30hz tuning). Amp is a bypassed front end of a Nakamichi sr-3a.
Yea, my 2 way 8" sounded strained listening to tlc, so out come the big rig. Things sound effortless, especially at low volumes. I like bass (80hz) that an 8" just can't do. The klipsch has better highs (above 2khz), but at what expense ? To be fair, 2 x 15's (shorting rings) has 8 times the area and a bit more xmax. I like bass that hits (impact seems to be 80-200hz), flat measuring 8" crossed at 80-100hz just doesn't pound you like dual 15's. And dual 15's get bass further into the room (better lever).
I'm closely looking at the 18sound xt1464 horn, but it looks like it wants a 1.2khz crossover point (a bit high for a 15" for me). I'm not sure about a compression driver, but the neo 18sound is around $329 each. And the horns seem to only be drilled for their driver (figures). I like my 40 x 90 dispersion, but I may trade for less echos.
It is a fun system to play with, it's addictive, and very fun. It is not a sleeper, but it sounds way better than you'd expect it to (thinking it is a junky dj speaker). The ev is an excellent horn designed by Don Keele (constant directivity). I'm sure making it a 3-way would be ideal, but I don't want that much complication nor that many crossover phase angle problems. But a 750hz crossover point is way better to my ears than 2khz. Most horns (excluding oris, etc) really should be run over a decade only, distortion and reflection goes nuts past that.
Norman
Yea, my 2 way 8" sounded strained listening to tlc, so out come the big rig. Things sound effortless, especially at low volumes. I like bass (80hz) that an 8" just can't do. The klipsch has better highs (above 2khz), but at what expense ? To be fair, 2 x 15's (shorting rings) has 8 times the area and a bit more xmax. I like bass that hits (impact seems to be 80-200hz), flat measuring 8" crossed at 80-100hz just doesn't pound you like dual 15's. And dual 15's get bass further into the room (better lever).
I'm closely looking at the 18sound xt1464 horn, but it looks like it wants a 1.2khz crossover point (a bit high for a 15" for me). I'm not sure about a compression driver, but the neo 18sound is around $329 each. And the horns seem to only be drilled for their driver (figures). I like my 40 x 90 dispersion, but I may trade for less echos.
It is a fun system to play with, it's addictive, and very fun. It is not a sleeper, but it sounds way better than you'd expect it to (thinking it is a junky dj speaker). The ev is an excellent horn designed by Don Keele (constant directivity). I'm sure making it a 3-way would be ideal, but I don't want that much complication nor that many crossover phase angle problems. But a 750hz crossover point is way better to my ears than 2khz. Most horns (excluding oris, etc) really should be run over a decade only, distortion and reflection goes nuts past that.
Norman
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lol, thanks.
I'm still trying to make a 2 way 2khz silver flute 4ohm 8" with mcm round horn (jbl 2407a), or a 1.5 way using the 6.5" silver flute shielded with one single pole capped tweeter (xt19, rt2h), and someday my pencil alpair 12's will arrive. My buddy here just got the 18sound xt1464 horns. Reading about the raptor project, it should be a great horn.
What you up to ?
Norman
I'm still trying to make a 2 way 2khz silver flute 4ohm 8" with mcm round horn (jbl 2407a), or a 1.5 way using the 6.5" silver flute shielded with one single pole capped tweeter (xt19, rt2h), and someday my pencil alpair 12's will arrive. My buddy here just got the 18sound xt1464 horns. Reading about the raptor project, it should be a great horn.
What you up to ?
Norman
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Just because you might have a large diameter subwoofer doesn't mean you have to play it loud. The point that he was making is that smaller subwoofers tend to make more distortion than larger ones. Since subwoofer distortion is completely in the normal listening spectrum, then I think that it is very important to make the subwoofer have the lowest distortion as possible. I'm building a 7 cu ft box for my 18" subwoofer project and my LR is about the same size as yours.
Norman,
Great picture, how about the details?
Are those speakers capable of rendering realistic dynamics?
Best Regards,
TerryO
I'm sure he can here the gravitas in Judge Judy's voice very clearly now!
arhh okay, do you have a build thread on here? would really like to see your soloution for the pc x-over
Larger diameter diaphragm will move more air and will produce more SPL lower in frequency range, compare to a smaller diaphragm, given same x-mas and sensitivity. Distortion levels are directly related to a motor suspension design and a properly design smaller driver may produce lower distortions then it's larger counterpart, at the same SPL. Nothing is absolute of cause and it all comes down to particular design and purpose. If you fell the need for an 18" in a small living room, then it's fine. To each his own. My point was that bigger is of cause better and there's no limit to how low and loud or low distortions you can go. But RCA didn't even take time to read the original thread and jump to conclusions with a icing on the cake of Corporate quest for profits.
I have a plan to build a 14ft transmission line on 4 rs390 in my shop but at home, I wouldn't want to have 7ft3 box nor do I have the room for it.
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Case study....or child's play... you name it )
) An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Distortion is also a function of excursion, generally speaking. So, the larger the driver the lower the excursion for a given frequency and SPL, and in theory, a lower distortion as well. That's my thinking anyway.
As to the 7 cu ft box, it's like having an old fashioned TV console. At least that's they way mine is turning out. It's about 30" tall (including the base), 40" wide and 18" deep with a big 18" hole in the front and center... It's not huge, but it is a piece of furniture. I'm going to screw it to the wall also.