I built a three way using Beyma 12 p80, plus Beyma TPL150 with horn, plus 18 inch bass from Faital Pro. I took cues from the Mark Levinson / Daniel Hertz M1.
Quality Mundorf xover for the mid/tweeter (1700Hz). Amps were monobloc KT88's.
800 watt MiniDSP amps for the bass.
Over engineered cabinetry using euro birch ply. Tweeter had custom shaped horn to mirror the Beyma standard product.
Pretty happy with this "world beater."
Quality Mundorf xover for the mid/tweeter (1700Hz). Amps were monobloc KT88's.
800 watt MiniDSP amps for the bass.
Over engineered cabinetry using euro birch ply. Tweeter had custom shaped horn to mirror the Beyma standard product.
Pretty happy with this "world beater."
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Hey atilsley!
I remember this build when you were on it. Sounds like you are liking the sound. That is great!
My recollection of your tweeter section is that is was wider than the original Beyma waveguide while maintaining shape and extending the straight section. And you took off the plastic back (as seen in the picture) and allowed it the breath into the whole back cavity which is pretty large. Maybe the larger waveguide allows the TPL to go lower than stock without the resonance reported by others.
Would you mind sharing details about the tweeter section, like waveguide width and height, approx volume behind the TPL, what kind of filling you are using in the back chamber? BTW, how loud do you listen to music?
Coincidentally, I also run KT88 for mids and treble and active midbass with class D amps (plus subs in my case).
Nice to see you completed your speaker and are happy with it!!
Cheers
Thanks.
The tweeter flare extended only by 10mm or so.
The larger flare was not intended to lower the frequency response, although that would be possible. However, it’s academic, as the mid bass easily covers the higher frequency.
The tweeter chamber was not damped. I didn’t see any benefit in that.
The volume of the tweeter housing is also academic...no material affect on sound, as it is sealed.
This system now resides in Malaysia.
Regards.
The tweeter flare extended only by 10mm or so.
The larger flare was not intended to lower the frequency response, although that would be possible. However, it’s academic, as the mid bass easily covers the higher frequency.
The tweeter chamber was not damped. I didn’t see any benefit in that.
The volume of the tweeter housing is also academic...no material affect on sound, as it is sealed.
This system now resides in Malaysia.
Regards.
Nice build. Try with a dampening pad on the wall behind. And some linseed oil.
Edit: Glass windows is I bad idea, IMHO, if you are using it as open baffle. But it may not be your room, I now realize.
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Nice build. Try with a dampening pad on the wall behind. And some linseed oil.
Edit: Glass windows is I bad idea, IMHO, if you are using it as open baffle. But it may not be your room, I now realize.
Thanks...I agree about the sound pad behind the system....but it's not my room!
The pic doesn't quite show it...but the cabinets have been finished in satin two-pack polyurethane...see different pic to give you an idea. Regards. Andrew.
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hey guys. I wanted to let you know that beyma has changed 12P80NDV2 a little bit. now it has a ribbed cone and there is minor difference in t/s parameters and resonance frequency, etc. check it yourself.
https://www.beyma.com/speakers/Fichas_Tecnicas/000011980.pdf
https://www.beyma.com/speakers/Fichas_Tecnicas/000011980.pdf
D...A...V...E.........
FOR HOME AUDIO, I would favor the previous Version2 12P80Nd with the Beyma TPL150H, vs this new Version2.5 ribbed cone.
The early P80 series 12" membrane features a flat composite paper cone loaded with carbon-fibre, encouraging tonal accuracy. Optimized for midrange.
The latest 12P80Ndv2.5 uses a ribbed waterproof double roll surround cone with treatment on both sides. Optimized for PA midbass. The latest 12P80Ndv2.5 goal = boost/smooth 100-500Hz SPL.
revision1 56g -smooth cone,. GOAL: Midrange 5.4% EFFICIENCY
revision2 67g -smooth cone, triple roll surround. GOAL: Midrange 4.65% EFFICIENCY
revision2.5 74g -ribbed cone, double roll surround. GOAL: PA-Mid-Bass 3.4% EFFICIENCY
FOR HOME AUDIO, I would favor the previous Version2 12P80Nd with the Beyma TPL150H, vs this new Version2.5 ribbed cone.
The early P80 series 12" membrane features a flat composite paper cone loaded with carbon-fibre, encouraging tonal accuracy. Optimized for midrange.
The latest 12P80Ndv2.5 uses a ribbed waterproof double roll surround cone with treatment on both sides. Optimized for PA midbass. The latest 12P80Ndv2.5 goal = boost/smooth 100-500Hz SPL.
revision1 56g -smooth cone,. GOAL: Midrange 5.4% EFFICIENCY
revision2 67g -smooth cone, triple roll surround. GOAL: Midrange 4.65% EFFICIENCY
revision2.5 74g -ribbed cone, double roll surround. GOAL: PA-Mid-Bass 3.4% EFFICIENCY
I have a pair of Beyma 12P80Nd (original version) and looking for a wideband driver to pair with them. I've read about as much of this thread as I could
I have miniDSP for crossover and I'd be using a pair of 8W ACA amps. My listening room is narrow and we don't listen very loud.
Sounds like the Beyma TPL150H would be the right pick? Are there other wide range drivers that should be considered with similar sound quality/cost?
I have miniDSP for crossover and I'd be using a pair of 8W ACA amps. My listening room is narrow and we don't listen very loud.
Sounds like the Beyma TPL150H would be the right pick? Are there other wide range drivers that should be considered with similar sound quality/cost?
I have a pair of Beyma 12P80Nd (original version) and looking for a wideband driver to pair with them. I've read about as much of this thread as I could
I have miniDSP for crossover and I'd be using a pair of 8W ACA amps. My listening room is narrow and we don't listen very loud.
Sounds like the Beyma TPL150H would be the right pick? Are there other wide range drivers that should be considered with similar sound quality/cost?
Alex,
Although I'm not as experienced as others here I figure some feedback is better than none, so here I go
I don't recall anybody running the 12p80 in a two way only. It's a midrange driver, so you need another driver (at least) to cover the bottom frequencies. The closest I recall is angeloitacare who crosses over from a TPL-150H to the 12p80nd around 1650Hz and uses subs below 80 or 60Hz.
Some people are ok with the TPL-150H crossed over around 1600Hz, some are not. Vapour Audio crosses it to a 12" Acoustic Elegance in a commercial product at 1100Hz. Others think you should xo at 2kHz.
Another option to mate with the 12p80nd is a horn xo around 800Hz. Maybe a coaxial horn in a SEOS 12 horn.
Most people who tried the 12p80nd didn't like it xo above 1500Hz. So to mate with a TPL you would need a midrange driver...but the the 12p80nd is not the best midbass by most accounts.
"Pick your poison" is often my takeaway in audio. Which flavor do you prefer?
Alex,
Although I'm not as experienced as others here I figure some feedback is better than none, so here I go
I don't recall anybody running the 12p80 in a two way only. It's a midrange driver, so you need another driver (at least) to cover the bottom frequencies. The closest I recall is angeloitacare who crosses over from a TPL-150H to the 12p80nd around 1650Hz and uses subs below 80 or 60Hz.
Some people are ok with the TPL-150H crossed over around 1600Hz, some are not. Vapour Audio crosses it to a 12" Acoustic Elegance in a commercial product at 1100Hz. Others think you should xo at 2kHz.
Another option to mate with the 12p80nd is a horn xo around 800Hz. Maybe a coaxial horn in a SEOS 12 horn.
Most people who tried the 12p80nd didn't like it xo above 1500Hz. So to mate with a TPL you would need a midrange driver...but the the 12p80nd is not the best midbass by most accounts.
"Pick your poison" is often my takeaway in audio. Which flavor do you prefer?
Thanks, I do appreciate the feedback.
I've been living with the Beyma 12P80Nd since 2015 and in a 65l sealed box with eq at my listening levels seems pretty amazing. I am sure for many they would want to supplement it with a sub but it is not necessary for me. Also since there seems to be a number of successful projects using the TPL-150(H) and 12P80Nd(v2) crossed at 1100Hz and up, do you feel that the overall conclusion is?
1) >1500Hz is too high for 12P80Nd
and/or
2) <1500Hz is loo low for the TPL-150(H)
I will experiment a bit with my 12P80Nd at around 1000-2000hz to see what I think. Thank goodness for the miniDSP
Thanks, I do appreciate the feedback.
I've been living with the Beyma 12P80Nd since 2015 and in a 65l sealed box with eq at my listening levels seems pretty amazing. I am sure for many they would want to supplement it with a sub but it is not necessary for me. Also since there seems to be a number of successful projects using the TPL-150(H) and 12P80Nd(v2) crossed at 1100Hz and up, do you feel that the overall conclusion is?
1) >1500Hz is too high for 12P80Nd
and/or
2) <1500Hz is loo low for the TPL-150(H)
I will experiment a bit with my 12P80Nd at around 1000-2000hz to see what I think. Thank goodness for the miniDSP
Alex,
I don't think there is an overall conclusion that applies to all. Angeloitacare swears by these two xo around 1650Hz. Some buy Vapor Audio commercial product and are happy with TPL-150H xo at 1100Hz. Some feel 12p80nd above 1500Hz doesn't sound so good vs alternatives (especially beaming) and TPL sound harsher below 1800Hz. As said before, seems a matter of personal preference.
Let us know how your tests turn out.
I set up 3 new profiles with crossover points at 1000(B), 1650(C) and 2000(D)Hz. This is crossed to my damaged Mangers (which I've detailed elsewhere) - the Mangers still sound ok below 10kHz. I have had the system crossed at 450Hz, some bass EQ and level matching so that is my starting point, A. Everything with B, C and D is the same except crossover frequency.
Switching miniDSP profiles takes a second or two, so it's not a perfect AB test but its quite obvious how much worse things are with profile B @1000Hz. I don't think its much worse with C or D.
I'll need to read up a bit on beaming because what I am hearing is not good. I have a narrow room with the speakers near furniture which surely cause a lot of early reflections. Perhaps the loss of off-axis is distorting the response. Maybe the beaming could turn out to be a good thing?
I'm reading up on beaming over here: What exactly is beaming and why does it matter?
I can page through this thread as well, but I assume somewhere this issue was discussed?
In a different AMT altogether, I have devised a method to cut distortion in the low-corner of AMT operation, which I will ultimately be experimenting with the TPL-150H as well. Granted my method does not raise the level of the fundamental to drastically extend the low-end, it none-the-less opens doors of possibilities for various implementations where the lower end is critical
These are preliminary measurements of the work I did with the other AMT (although this test was with a class-D amplifier that probably had high distortion, the reductions speak for themselves):
Keep an eye out in the up-coming months!
When you find out how big of a mistake that was, send me a PM so I can take them off your hands at 50% off.
That is very kind and puts my mind at ease. Its community support like that, that makes the Internet great. Unfortunately, I am nearly deaf so it may take me a long time to decide how bad the design is. Maybe years, maybe decades. So I'll pencil you in for Sep 18th, 2039 for shipment but please do send the deposit now. Oh and also, I have a friend, he's actually a Nigerian Prince and he might have an even better offer for you.