Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 16th January 2019, 10:14 PM   #2641
pos is offline pos  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
pos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Paris
rePhase 1.4.3 is online: download

Code:
1.4.3 2019-01-16
  Bug corrections:
    - after loading a preset, correctly show "rotate" option when set in
      Filters Linearization tab
    - resolved the zoom out (right click) bug where too much zoom states
      were added
  Adjustments:
    - measurement interpolation is now logarithmic in both magnitude and
      frequency axes, so that an interpolation between two points will
      always show as a straight line
__________________
2019-01-16: rePhase 1.4.3
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th January 2019, 05:27 PM   #2642
thierry38 is offline thierry38  France
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Grenoble


Perfect software/tool.
Graphically very pleasant and fast/easy to "drive" with mouse.

Maybe,a little more sensitive mouse wheel Q !

I'm getting out...

Last edited by thierry38; 17th January 2019 at 05:32 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th January 2019, 05:57 PM   #2643
pos is offline pos  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
pos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Paris
Current mouse wheel steps for Q are the same as the one used for up/down arrow keys: 0.1 between 0 and 10, and 1 above 10.
I can certainly adjust that if there is a consensus. I could for example add additional granularities, like 0.01 between 0 and 1, or maybe 0.5 between 5 and 10, etc.
__________________
2019-01-16: rePhase 1.4.3
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2019, 12:48 PM   #2644
Rullknufs is offline Rullknufs  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
Rullknufs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sweden
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
I'm giving this another try today, following the Bear REW rePhase tutorial Dropbox - REW_rePhase_tuto.pdf

I have done all the 9 measurements for each channel, done vector average to get the average, done the EQ filters in REW. Imported the measurement into rePhase and added the EQ filters in rePhase and exported as impulse response with the settings shown in the PDF. However, after that I get lost. I import the impulse response into REW but it's at like 120dB while the original measurement is only at like 75dB. Why is this? I have also noticed that when I import my REW measurement into rePhase the frequency response is off the charts and I have to do a gain offset of like -75dB to get it inside the window. Could it have something to do with this?
__________________
My audio and DIY blog: http://phimusic.blogspot.se/

Last edited by Rullknufs; 18th January 2019 at 12:51 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2019, 09:11 AM   #2645
pos is offline pos  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
pos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Paris
REW measurements are typically in the 80-90dB range, depending on your calibration settings.
rePhase expects measurements around 0dB, this is just a different convention and you can adjust this offset in the measurement tab.

I never tried SwissBear's tutorial myself, but I don't think you are supposed to load the resulting FIR in REW at the end, but in your convolution engine.

In any case you have to check your correction levels are ok by bypassing the measurement in rephase. Ideally it should be close to 0dB and never exceed it in order to avoid digital clipping in most situations.

Can you share your rephase settings here so I can give them a look?
__________________
2019-01-16: rePhase 1.4.3
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2019, 10:21 AM   #2646
Rullknufs is offline Rullknufs  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
Rullknufs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sweden
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
These are the export settings I use, same as in the guide on the MiniDSP website.
Click the image to open in full size.

What I have tried to do is to do the REW measurements (9 for left channel, 9 for right channel), averaged them into one for left channel, one for right. Applied 1/6th smoothing and applied EQ filters in REW. Imported the measurement into rePhase and imported the EQ filters into rePhase too. Then I went to the filters linearization tab and put in my cabinet tuning and approx values of the crossovers.

This is what it looks like then for the left channel.
Click the image to open in full size.

Phase is all over the place, not as neat as in this picture from the MiniDSP website
Click the image to open in full size.

I tried exporting with the EQ-filters and the changes in the filters linearization tab and importing it to my OpenDRC but it doesn't sound good at all. It takes the life away from the music and removes all dynamics and "attack", and the bass is almost completely gone.

Edit: Did some quick measurements with and without the filters I exported to the OpenDRC and the frequency response doesn't look bad at all, so there must be something else killing the sound.
This is what the impulse response looks like for the right channel with and without the FIR-filter.
Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
My audio and DIY blog: http://phimusic.blogspot.se/

Last edited by Rullknufs; 19th January 2019 at 10:37 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2019, 11:15 AM   #2647
BYRTT is offline BYRTT  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
BYRTT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rullknufs View Post
...This is what the impulse response looks like for the right channel with and without the FIR-filter...
A dirty quick comment is that corrected IR for right channel is inverted verse the non corrected one, now lets say that is by accident somewhere into settings and same inverting is not set for the corrected left channel then case could be as you tell below, so maybe try look up how IR turns out for the corrected left channel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rullknufs View Post
...It takes the life away from the music and removes all dynamics and "attack", and the bass is almost completely gone...
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2019, 11:26 AM   #2648
Rullknufs is offline Rullknufs  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
Rullknufs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sweden
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
Both channels have been inverted. I don't understand why though.

When sitting at the listening position the soundstage is great when I bypass the FIR-filters in the DRC but if I turn them on the soundstage is just like when you accidentally connect one speaker out of phase. So I'm thinking that something causes the speakers to play out of phase and that's why the bass and "attack" is killed too. Maybe I'm wrong though, I don't know

Edit: The IR for both channels driven looks weird though
Click the image to open in full size.
If looking at one channel at a time there's not a very big difference except for the inversion but with both channels there is a big difference. I can't really interpret it though.
__________________
My audio and DIY blog: http://phimusic.blogspot.se/

Last edited by Rullknufs; 19th January 2019 at 11:28 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2019, 12:21 PM   #2649
Rullknufs is offline Rullknufs  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
Rullknufs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sweden
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
Ok, so I had a closer (or further away) look at the impulse response and for the measurement with the filters active there is a similar peak to the first one at 14.8ms after the initial peak. It has pretty much exactly the same character so I figured that maybe one of the speakers has a delay to it. I put a 14.8ms delay to one of the channels and did another measurement and now it looks better (and sounds less bad). Bass is still missing though but I suppose that's because of the EQ and it is clearly visible in the new measurements (50-100Hz is down 10dB).
__________________
My audio and DIY blog: http://phimusic.blogspot.se/
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2019, 10:53 PM   #2650
BYRTT is offline BYRTT  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
BYRTT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
@Rullknufs,

Now i don't know about guide details in Bear's document or the miniDSP guide but in general doing indoor measurements from listening position verse nearfield then phase can be a havoc and you need a time window filter/gating/smoothing of some kind, for example try frequency dependent window (FDW) in REW set at 6 cycles, say this because minDSP example in post 2646 can happen be a nearfield gated measurement so phase will look cleaner than the mess we often get at listening position. If you try to vector avarage multiple amplitude per channel then that phase havoc could be ingored or tricked taking a "Minimumphase version" or "Excess phase version" into "All SPL" tab before exporting to Rephase, but if your goal in process also is linearize phase turn from some physical IIR XO points then you need either neardfield gated clean phase data or simply use "Filters Linearization" tab in Rephase to correct for some known XO points taken from speakers datasheet numbers.

About measure both speakers (stereo set triangle) at listening position, guess first process thing is carefully allign microphone position moving it small steps around untill both L/R channels IR/SR get overlaid and then freeze that position before looking at non corrected verse corrected system responses, well what i mean is you shall not use delay at one channel because then position for microphone is not alligned in the triangle.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering toolHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FIR linear phase plugin for MiniDSP? diyjb01 miniDSP 17 9th June 2016 02:35 PM
FIR filter design tool for Loudspeaker magnitude equalization ttmusic Software Tools 3 24th May 2013 09:30 PM
FIR Filtering experiences Olombo PC Based 8 10th February 2013 04:45 PM
AVX based FIR VST, crossover / EQ / DRC and delay KOON3876 PC Based 97 26th November 2012 08:18 AM
Phase EQ using FIR filters Grasso Multi-Way 2 2nd July 2003 11:37 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:33 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki