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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
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Old 9th July 2016, 05:20 AM   #1121
diyaudnut is offline diyaudnut  United States
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Was able to use thierry38's advice. Thanks much.
Though i thought taking measurements from REW to rephase would be a bit more straightforward.
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Old 9th July 2016, 05:22 AM   #1122
diyaudnut is offline diyaudnut  United States
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Please take a look at the latest results with a new ESS9018 DAC

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...ml#post4769009
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Old 6th August 2016, 01:33 PM   #1123
SwissBear is offline SwissBear  Switzerland
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Hi Everyone, Just discovered RePhase and I have been very impressed with what I have seen. So my very sincere congratulations and thanks to Pos for making this beautiful piece of software available. I'm also a member of a small community of French enthusiasts trying to spread the word about it here: RePhase I have a naive question as a beginner with RePhase: I am trying to implement a 3rd order high-pass filter at 40Hz in my system. I would like this filter to be linear phase and able to run at 192kHz. How many taps would it require ? Is the default 8192 taps enough ? Is there any way to simulate that ? Thanks in advance.
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Old 7th August 2016, 06:16 PM   #1124
pos is offline pos  Europe
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Hello,
Glad you like rePhase!
Interesting topic and experiments there!

Regarding your question, after the impulse generation the red curves will show you exactly what the resulting magnitude and phase curve will look (correction alone or actual response if you loaded a measurement) for a given set of impulse settings (number of taps, sampling frequency, windowing, etc.).

In short the blue curves are the target, and the red ones the result.
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Old 7th August 2016, 07:35 PM   #1125
SwissBear is offline SwissBear  Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pos View Post
Hello,
Glad you like rePhase!
Interesting topic and experiments there!

Regarding your question, after the impulse generation the red curves will show you exactly what the resulting magnitude and phase curve will look (correction alone or actual response if you loaded a measurement) for a given set of impulse settings (number of taps, sampling frequency, windowing, etc.).

In short the blue curves are the target, and the red ones the result.
Hi Pos,

Thanks for answering. Much appreciated.

One more question which was a matter of debate was the appropriate window of measure prior to using RePhase. I kind of found out that using HOLMImpulse with the 'Frequency response smoothing' and the 'Complex Smoothing' was the most appropriate way to capture the best information to feed into RePhase and get the most linear phase through the whole frequency range. Would you agree or would you have any better suggestion, using REW for instance ?
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Old 7th August 2016, 10:14 PM   #1126
pos is offline pos  Europe
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There is no ideal measurement window (or distance, or technique) that will work all the time. It depends on the distance/position (mic, loudspeaker, boundaries), the number of ways, the frequency range, the things you are trying to correct, etc...

For example for phase-only corrections, you don't need high frequency resolution but you need to avoid reflections as much as you can, so manual gating is a good solution most of the time.
The lower you want to measure (ie longer gating) the closer you need to get from the loudspeakers, and as a consequence the less accurate you will be for HF and phase relation between ways.
So for a fullrange correction you will most likely need several measurements at different distances and gating length to get an accurate picture.
If those measurement are all exported with a similar centering and magnitude you can then drag and drop them on the rephase window one after the other to focus on a specific area.
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Old 7th August 2016, 10:30 PM   #1127
diyaudnut is offline diyaudnut  United States
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Hi Pos, just a question, is a 64-bit version in the pipeline? Not saying it would make an audible difference, just checking.
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Old 8th August 2016, 09:35 AM   #1128
SwissBear is offline SwissBear  Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pos View Post
There is no ideal measurement window (or distance, or technique) that will work all the time. It depends on the distance/position (mic, loudspeaker, boundaries), the number of ways, the frequency range, the things you are trying to correct, etc...

For example for phase-only corrections, you don't need high frequency resolution but you need to avoid reflections as much as you can, so manual gating is a good solution most of the time.
The lower you want to measure (ie longer gating) the closer you need to get from the loudspeakers, and as a consequence the less accurate you will be for HF and phase relation between ways.
So for a fullrange correction you will most likely need several measurements at different distances and gating length to get an accurate picture.
If those measurement are all exported with a similar centering and magnitude you can then drag and drop them on the rephase window one after the other to focus on a specific area.
Hi Pos,
Thanks again for answering so quickly. What really struck me after trying your remarkable piece of SW was the quality of the impulse generated. So thanks very much again.

Prior to discovering RePhase, we (on the French forum) spent a considerable amount of time playing with Trinnov Amethyst and Dirac, which are not exactly comparable as they are aimed more at room correction than plain LS phase/time alignment but anyhow. What we found out was that, to get a comparable representation of phase between Trinnov and REW, we needed to use a measure window with variable length, ie 6 to 8 cycles.

This does obviously not protect from reflections, and the method you are suggesting probably is much more accurate that the one we found. But I guess that, if the goal is to spread the interest of phase correction, we need to find an easy way of measuring to propose to users, in order not to get them afraid by the difficulty to implement the concept. This would not be a perfect methodology, but a heuristic which works in most case.

In case you find out such heuristic method, please let me know.
Thanks.
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:31 AM   #1129
pos is offline pos  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diyaudnut View Post
Hi Pos, just a question, is a 64-bit version in the pipeline? Not saying it would make an audible difference, just checking.
Hi diyaudnut,

I am currently using a 64 bit machine, so it is possible that next versions will be 64bit only...
I don't know how many out there still use 32 bit machine ?...
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:35 AM   #1130
pos is offline pos  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissBear View Post
Hi Pos,
Thanks again for answering so quickly. What really struck me after trying your remarkable piece of SW was the quality of the impulse generated. So thanks very much again.

Prior to discovering RePhase, we (on the French forum) spent a considerable amount of time playing with Trinnov Amethyst and Dirac, which are not exactly comparable as they are aimed more at room correction than plain LS phase/time alignment but anyhow. What we found out was that, to get a comparable representation of phase between Trinnov and REW, we needed to use a measure window with variable length, ie 6 to 8 cycles.

This does obviously not protect from reflections, and the method you are suggesting probably is much more accurate that the one we found. But I guess that, if the goal is to spread the interest of phase correction, we need to find an easy way of measuring to propose to users, in order not to get them afraid by the difficulty to implement the concept. This would not be a perfect methodology, but a heuristic which works in most case.

In case you find out such heuristic method, please let me know.
Thanks.
For measurement I use HOLM almost exclusively, so I am not familiar with the ways REW does variable windowing.
I know accurate uses a form of "psycho-acoustic" windowing that is supposed to work very well. Maybe REW uses a similar approach.

Anyway I like using variable gating myself to really get a feel on how/where the reflections affect the resulting magnitude/phase curves.
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