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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
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Old 23rd April 2016, 09:25 PM   #991
BYRTT is offline BYRTT  Denmark
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rePhase, a loudspeaker phase linearization, EQ and FIR filtering tool
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyunlimited View Post
.....For Noobs like me it is very hard to work with compensate filters etc. In fact I do not understand how this should work and i did not find an example where these Things are explained the way i could do it on my own. (Perhaps i am getting to old, perhaps my English is too bad ; School“s out for over 30 Years now, perhaps a combination of all of these Things ).....
Have a try to explain compensate filters : )
You know having a audio device with unlimited bandwidth from DC to light speed will be perfect audio device, in it have totally flat amplitude and phase inside and outside of audio band. Real speaker drivers have limited bandwidth and are minimum phase devices, so if their fall off slopes outside their stop bands is corrected with high SPL numbers of minimum phase correction they in theory end up be a DC to light speed device.

Below example red trace should simulate a mid-bass when mounted in a sealed box that end up a 2nd order 80Hz roll off and in HF area it rolls off 2nd order at 2kHz, and lets say all peaks and dips including break up modes is corrected with minimum phase (IRR) EQ at "Paragraphic Gain EQ" tab or corrected with passive filter components. Blue trace is if we look isolated at how compensate mode correct for a HP 2nd order 80Hz point plus a LP 2nd order 2kHz point. It's the IRR reverse mode of driver itself and will correct driver to now be perfect linear phase wide bandwidth device.
Click the image to open in full size.

Result of above red trace corrected with blue trace would be as below red trace, but it won't work in real world because audio system lack dynamic range to correct for so much EQ boost and driver itself won't like that much boost and also won't perform good sound outside its intended pass band. But now we can add new stop bands that is inside drivers intended pass band working area in Rephase's "Linear-Phase Filters" tab that only correct for amplitude and leave phase as is (FIR filter), blue trace below is that correction with HP LR4 at 100Hz and LP LR8 at 1kHz.
Click the image to open in full size.

In real world think to hit the right compensate filter will take some hack time to hit right filter, by sweeping up and down frq point and try different order of slope or mix multiple slopes. High pass compensate mode for sealed box should be second order, vented fourth order, and guess OB be first order and leaking box be third order.
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File Type: png 91.PNG (26.5 KB, 220 views)

Last edited by BYRTT; 23rd April 2016 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 24th April 2016, 06:03 PM   #992
pos is offline pos  Europe
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Hi skyunlimited.

I hope BYRTT's nice examples will make things clearer for you.
I apology for the lack of documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyunlimited View Post
What a about the possibility of importing the EQ-Text File from RoomEQWizard?
(That is what I am doing quite often, let REW "suggest" some Filters and copy them manually to rePhase)
rePhase will stay completly "manual" and Noobs like me could use automatic Functions.
What does this export format look like?
If it is a formatted list of EQ points (fs, Q, gain for example) then it can probably implemented easily.
If it is a list of biquads then I would have to add a specific tab, and cope with the different biquad conventions that exists...

As for the linux hint...
Yes it could be made to work, maybe in the future...
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Old 24th April 2016, 06:46 PM   #993
skyunlimited is offline skyunlimited  Germany
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RoomEQwizard gives us a simple Textfile ( File > Export >Filtersettings as text).

This is a Demo File:
Code:
Filter Settings file

Room EQ V5,14
Dated: 24.04.2016 19:36:33

Notes:W5-2143

Equaliser: Generic
Apr 11 10:42:43
Filter  1: ON  PK       Fc   3.834 Hz  Gain  -6,9 dB  Q  5,00
Filter  2: ON  PK       Fc     173 Hz  Gain  -2,8 dB  Q  2,00
Filter  3: ON  PK       Fc   9.126 Hz  Gain  -6,1 dB  Q  5,00
Filter  4: ON  PK       Fc   2.361 Hz  Gain  -3,5 dB  Q  3,03
Filter  5: ON  PK       Fc  14.906 Hz  Gain  -5,4 dB  Q  5,00
Filter  6: ON  PK       Fc  10.695 Hz  Gain  -4,0 dB  Q  3,87
Filter  7: ON  PK       Fc     863 Hz  Gain  -4,9 dB  Q  5,00
Filter  8: ON  PK       Fc   7.691 Hz  Gain  -4,4 dB  Q  5,00
Filter  9: ON  PK       Fc   1.802 Hz  Gain  -2,9 dB  Q  5,00
Filter 10: ON  PK       Fc   1.439 Hz  Gain  -2,5 dB  Q  5,00
Filter 11: ON  None   
Filter 12: ON  None   
Filter 13: ON  None   
Filter 14: ON  None   
Filter 15: ON  None   
Filter 16: ON  None   
Filter 17: ON  None   
Filter 18: ON  None   
Filter 19: ON  None   
Filter 20: ON  None
Regards
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Old 24th April 2016, 08:27 PM   #994
pos is offline pos  Europe
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Looks simple enough to import

Do you know if these are supposed to be proportional Q (ą la miniDSP) or constant Q (ą la DCX2496 and 90% of the rest of the market) type of parametric EQs?
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Old 24th April 2016, 09:15 PM   #995
skyunlimited is offline skyunlimited  Germany
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This is a question i can not answer. Here is something i found in the REW Documentation: Equaliser Selection
I am using the Generic Type with good Results.


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Old 24th April 2016, 10:25 PM   #996
pos is offline pos  Europe
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Thanks

The description states it is "based on the Robert Bristow-Johnson 'Cookbook' equations", so these are proportional Q EQs.
It allows up to 20 EQs of different types, including the notch that I don't currently implement as is in rephase. So this would definitely not fit in a single paragraphic EQ bank where I intended to fit it.

As it currently is the closest thing would be the Xilica XP2040 export: 16 PEQ, that would fit nicely in a bank after converting those BW into Qs...
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Last edited by pos; 24th April 2016 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 24th April 2016, 10:52 PM   #997
kessito is offline kessito  Netherlands
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Hi Pos,

These are all settings in rew, one can choose generic (rbj).or constant q.
The user canalso set max nr of bands in rew.
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Old 24th April 2016, 11:07 PM   #998
pos is offline pos  Europe
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But as I understand it this is also dictated by the "export" format the user chooses, and what the target unit can do.
Gotta reinstall REW (which means reinstalling a JRE )
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Old 25th April 2016, 06:43 AM   #999
diyaudnut is offline diyaudnut  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BYRTT View Post
Have a try to explain compensate filters : )
You know having a audio device with unlimited bandwidth from DC to light speed will be perfect audio device, in it have totally flat amplitude and phase inside and outside of audio band. Real speaker drivers have limited bandwidth and are minimum phase devices, so if their fall off slopes outside their stop bands is corrected with high SPL numbers of minimum phase correction they in theory end up be a DC to light speed device.

Below example red trace should simulate a mid-bass when mounted in a sealed box that end up a 2nd order 80Hz roll off and in HF area it rolls off 2nd order at 2kHz, and lets say all peaks and dips including break up modes is corrected with minimum phase (IRR) EQ at "Paragraphic Gain EQ" tab or corrected with passive filter components. Blue trace is if we look isolated at how compensate mode correct for a HP 2nd order 80Hz point plus a LP 2nd order 2kHz point. It's the IRR reverse mode of driver itself and will correct driver to now be perfect linear phase wide bandwidth device.
Click the image to open in full size.

Result of above red trace corrected with blue trace would be as below red trace, but it won't work in real world because audio system lack dynamic range to correct for so much EQ boost and driver itself won't like that much boost and also won't perform good sound outside its intended pass band. But now we can add new stop bands that is inside drivers intended pass band working area in Rephase's "Linear-Phase Filters" tab that only correct for amplitude and leave phase as is (FIR filter), blue trace below is that correction with HP LR4 at 100Hz and LP LR8 at 1kHz.
Click the image to open in full size.

In real world think to hit the right compensate filter will take some hack time to hit right filter, by sweeping up and down frq point and try different order of slope or mix multiple slopes. High pass compensate mode for sealed box should be second order, vented fourth order, and guess OB be first order and leaking box be third order.
BYRTT, a very nice and clear illustration and explanation.

thanks
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Old 25th April 2016, 07:21 AM   #1000
Zero D is offline Zero D  United Kingdom
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Lightbulb REW

Quote:
Originally Posted by pos

Gotta reinstall REW (which means reinstalling a JRE )
You do NOT need to install a Full Java package There are versions of REW which come with it's own Very light install of Java Index of /installers
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