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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Cardioid Bass.... yes, very good!!
Cardioid Bass.... yes, very good!!
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Old 16th September 2019, 01:52 PM   #81
Pallas is offline Pallas  Pakistan
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
Seems like a lot of people end up there. <snip>

It seems to me that cardioid/dipole make more sense in the next region up, ie upper bass/lower midrange. You can’t really spread out sources there, but room modes still aren’t dense enough to be in the statistical region.
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Old 16th September 2019, 09:55 PM   #82
bradleypnw is offline bradleypnw
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It seems to me that cardioid/dipole make more sense in the next region up, ie upper bass/lower midrange. You canít really spread out sources there, but room modes still arenít dense enough to be in the statistical region.
What happens if you spread out sources in the upper bass/lower midrange?
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Old 17th September 2019, 12:44 AM   #83
Pallas is offline Pallas  Pakistan
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What happens if you spread out sources in the upper bass/lower midrange?
You hear them where you put them. For example, mount a driver playing up to 300 or 400 Hz behind you to the right, and you'll hear it there.
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Old 17th September 2019, 03:19 AM   #84
bradleypnw is offline bradleypnw
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You hear them where you put them. For example, mount a driver playing up to 300 or 400 Hz behind you to the right, and you'll hear it there.
OK. I wasn't sure if our perception locates on a certain frequency range or not. For example, if you locate a 400Hz driver to your back right but then mid/upper mids at standard front axis locations.

Or, what if you flipped it? Placed low mids on front axis and mid-upper-mids around the room. Does a frequency range dominate our location perception so we locate on that position?

I can't think of a practical reason why someone would want to do that but it would be good to understand.
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Old 21st September 2019, 04:06 PM   #85
kees52 is offline kees52  Netherlands
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I go test it, have saw the panels for the closed 12 inch box, and monday the sawdust for the dipole for 2 x 10 inch w26s woofers from visaton.

The closed box has the reference 1260 woofer.

And then play, I need boxes for mine designs so why not try.
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Old 22nd September 2019, 04:25 PM   #86
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by bradleypnw View Post
OK. I wasn't sure if our perception locates on a certain frequency range or not. For example, if you locate a 400Hz driver to your back right but then mid/upper mids at standard front axis locations.
Our localization capability will peak in the 1-3 kHz range and it falls to either side. By the modal range in a small room there is little to no localization. Of course if you play a single tone, you will likely localize it no matter the frequency, but for complex signals with lots of frequency content, the HFs will override the lows in location perception.
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Old 22nd September 2019, 04:45 PM   #87
Bill Coltrane is offline Bill Coltrane  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by Pallas View Post
It seems to me that cardioid/dipole make more sense in the next region up, ie upper bass/lower midrange. You can’t really spread out sources there, but room modes still aren’t dense enough to be in the statistical region.
Isn't this exactly what D&D do?
Cardioid low mids, so the 100Hz to 500Hz range is more flat at the listeners ears.
Then add multiple subs and you have "flat" sound from 20-20kHz.


In portable PA, cardioid subs can be useful.
There you often can't use multiple subs.
Edit: And spl levels often are a limit.
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Old 22nd September 2019, 04:49 PM   #88
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by Bill Coltrane View Post
so the 100Hz to 500Hz range is more flat at the listeners ears.
Why would that be?
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Old 23rd September 2019, 02:14 AM   #89
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Cardioid Bass.... yes, very good!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
By the modal range in a small room there is little to no localization.
That's the received wisdom, but it's usually not true. I've done quite a lot of testing that shows it's something of a myth.

Quote:
Of course if you play a single tone, you will likely localize it no matter the frequency, but for complex signals with lots of frequency content, the HFs will override the lows in location perception.
In testing I have found single pure tones to be difficult to locate, no matter the frequency. Band limited noise is much easier. Agree that the HFs can steer location perception (they are the most noticeable), but they mostly don't obscure bass if it's there.
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:30 PM   #90
kees52 is offline kees52  Netherlands
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Started with the closed box with a 12 inch, later the dipole with 2 x wsp26s visaton, these did well in a dipole in past, did let the doors rattle with it, clean bass.

This closed box is a version who fires on the floor.
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