I am building cabinets for the Thor TL speakers. Zalytron and Madisound offer kits and Madisound offers two versions, a standard crossover and a premium corssover for $200 more.
The Zalytron kit, which is a little cheaper than the standard Madisound kit, uses erse perfect lay coils, Axon 250 volt poly caps and non-inductive resistors.
The Madisound standard kit uses a Solen 14 awg perfect lay coil, solen polypropylene fast caps, Benic Poly Cap, a Madisound 20 awg air core coil, and Eagle resistors.
The madisound premium crossover substitutes a Goertz 14 awg copper foil coil for the solen coil and hoviland musicap for the solen poly fast cap.
Any opinions on whether the Madisound kit is better than the Zalytron kit or whether the madisound premium kit is worth the extra $200?
The Zalytron kit, which is a little cheaper than the standard Madisound kit, uses erse perfect lay coils, Axon 250 volt poly caps and non-inductive resistors.
The Madisound standard kit uses a Solen 14 awg perfect lay coil, solen polypropylene fast caps, Benic Poly Cap, a Madisound 20 awg air core coil, and Eagle resistors.
The madisound premium crossover substitutes a Goertz 14 awg copper foil coil for the solen coil and hoviland musicap for the solen poly fast cap.
Any opinions on whether the Madisound kit is better than the Zalytron kit or whether the madisound premium kit is worth the extra $200?
Ill jump right in there since no one else has
Well, I just didn't want you to feel ignored _grin_
First I wouldn't hesitate to purchase anything from either company.
I think the reason you have had no replies prior to my post is that you just have to take your best shot on your own personal opinion.
I would be quite surprised if anybody has ever heard the two kits side by side - even then they might do differently on different systems and in different rooms, etc.
As to the crossover, that too is more from your own frame of reference - It depends on your income, budget and how critical a listener you are.
Speakers are the weakest link in the chain, and crossovers are the weakest link in speakers so to some it makes good sense to get the premium components and max out thesystem as best they can, others will feel it is a waste of money.
FWIW, I've dealt with Brian at Madisound and found him to be open about such things - If he thinks something isn't too swift fro the money he'll tell you - and I have bought stuff from him for years because of that.
I just looked up the thor kit at Madisound. That's a nice kit and an expensive kit.
No way that I can tell that the premium crossover is worth the money _big grin_ cause I really don't know. However, if they price it like they usually do, the additional amount is only the difference in cost of premium parts over standard parts - less the kit discount of 10 or 15 per cent.
If I were buying that kit I would probably buy the premium crossover because ir's a nice kit and _my_ way of doing things is if I'm going to to a _nice_ one I'm going to do it all the way.
Before they came out with the Seas kit I bought the Scan-Speak Solists with outboard premium crossovers and was happy with them.
Can't say it's the right thing for you - don't really know.
YMMV
regards
Ken L
JC said:
Well, I just didn't want you to feel ignored _grin_
First I wouldn't hesitate to purchase anything from either company.
I think the reason you have had no replies prior to my post is that you just have to take your best shot on your own personal opinion.
I would be quite surprised if anybody has ever heard the two kits side by side - even then they might do differently on different systems and in different rooms, etc.
As to the crossover, that too is more from your own frame of reference - It depends on your income, budget and how critical a listener you are.
Speakers are the weakest link in the chain, and crossovers are the weakest link in speakers so to some it makes good sense to get the premium components and max out thesystem as best they can, others will feel it is a waste of money.
FWIW, I've dealt with Brian at Madisound and found him to be open about such things - If he thinks something isn't too swift fro the money he'll tell you - and I have bought stuff from him for years because of that.
I just looked up the thor kit at Madisound. That's a nice kit and an expensive kit.
No way that I can tell that the premium crossover is worth the money _big grin_ cause I really don't know. However, if they price it like they usually do, the additional amount is only the difference in cost of premium parts over standard parts - less the kit discount of 10 or 15 per cent.
If I were buying that kit I would probably buy the premium crossover because ir's a nice kit and _my_ way of doing things is if I'm going to to a _nice_ one I'm going to do it all the way.
Before they came out with the Seas kit I bought the Scan-Speak Solists with outboard premium crossovers and was happy with them.
Can't say it's the right thing for you - don't really know.
YMMV
regards
Ken L
Thanks, I was starting to think I had bad grammar or something. 
I'm pretty pickey about sound but I am kind of new at the DIY thing. I don't know anything about different brand crossover components so I was looking for some input as to whether the change in components is likely to make a significant improvement. Solen, Axon, Goertz, Hoviland? What do I know?
Like you, I am sort of inclined to go for the premium crossover but I wanted to make sure that those with alot more experience didn't think it was a waste.
I'm pretty pickey about sound but I am kind of new at the DIY thing. I don't know anything about different brand crossover components so I was looking for some input as to whether the change in components is likely to make a significant improvement. Solen, Axon, Goertz, Hoviland? What do I know?
Like you, I am sort of inclined to go for the premium crossover but I wanted to make sure that those with alot more experience didn't think it was a waste.
First off, I have no idea what kind of parts are used in those kits.
But if your crossover isn't to large you might want to build it yourself, with point 2 point wiring.
This way you could also select each component yourself. You should have the budget for choosing high quality components, as you are thinking about paying $ 200 more.
I've built my crossovers for 180 Euro per piece, it includes an E-130 core, two tritec coils, and most of the caps are audyncap plusses.
Now if you're intending to spend more than $ 200, you could make a really great crossover.
Do you have a link to the schematic and a list of parts of the crossover you intend on using?
But if your crossover isn't to large you might want to build it yourself, with point 2 point wiring.
This way you could also select each component yourself. You should have the budget for choosing high quality components, as you are thinking about paying $ 200 more.
I've built my crossovers for 180 Euro per piece, it includes an E-130 core, two tritec coils, and most of the caps are audyncap plusses.
Now if you're intending to spend more than $ 200, you could make a really great crossover.
Do you have a link to the schematic and a list of parts of the crossover you intend on using?
schematic from the seas site
It's a parallel topology thus IMHO the zobel on the tweeter and woofer can be made of lesser quality parts (MKP and ferrite core coils).
I would substitute C2&C3 with high quality caps.
C3 is big and will be expensive (composed of 2 values or more) when HQ components are being used.
L1 is a nice candidate for a tritec coil or a copperfoil coil.
It's a parallel topology thus IMHO the zobel on the tweeter and woofer can be made of lesser quality parts (MKP and ferrite core coils).
I would substitute C2&C3 with high quality caps.
C3 is big and will be expensive (composed of 2 values or more) when HQ components are being used.
L1 is a nice candidate for a tritec coil or a copperfoil coil.
La Ma,
Either you are a real guru or you cheated and looked at the Madisound site.
The changes you suggested are exactly the differences between the standard and premium madisound crossovers. C2 is replaced with a Hoviland Musiccap. A single 18mfd Solen Poly Fast cap at C3 is replaced with two 9 mfd Hoviland Musiccaps. And, the Solen coil at L1 is replaced with the Goerts copper foil coil.
Sounds like the changes may be worth the money.
Either you are a real guru or you cheated and looked at the Madisound site.
The changes you suggested are exactly the differences between the standard and premium madisound crossovers. C2 is replaced with a Hoviland Musiccap. A single 18mfd Solen Poly Fast cap at C3 is replaced with two 9 mfd Hoviland Musiccaps. And, the Solen coil at L1 is replaced with the Goerts copper foil coil.
Sounds like the changes may be worth the money.
Large crossover!
I wouldn't use ferrite coils, as small air core coils aren't very expensive.
For L2 & L3 I would use an air core coil with 2 mm wires or bigger. The values are low, so those coils aren't very expensive.
For L1 I would use the coil with the lowest resistance that you can get..
Coil with an E-core, Air core with 3 mm wires, tritec or a big copper foil coil.
For C1 and C4 you can use simple MKP types, and for C2 and C3 you can let your imagination run loose
I wouldn't use ferrite coils, as small air core coils aren't very expensive.
For L2 & L3 I would use an air core coil with 2 mm wires or bigger. The values are low, so those coils aren't very expensive.
For L1 I would use the coil with the lowest resistance that you can get..
Coil with an E-core, Air core with 3 mm wires, tritec or a big copper foil coil.
For C1 and C4 you can use simple MKP types, and for C2 and C3 you can let your imagination run loose
My experience is extremely limited, but I can tell you that upgrading the metalized (Solen) tweeter caps to film and foil (AudioCaps) made an enormous improvement in my Ariel speakers. http://www.aloha-audio.com/Arieltxt1.html
BTW, my speakers are the older Mark II design, which uses a D2905/9000 tweeter and a with a notch impedance correction circuit that the latest design (D2905/9500) does not use. I also tweaked the tweeter cap value, raising it to 5.2uF. The original was specified as 4.7 to 5.0.
BTW, my speakers are the older Mark II design, which uses a D2905/9000 tweeter and a with a notch impedance correction circuit that the latest design (D2905/9500) does not use. I also tweaked the tweeter cap value, raising it to 5.2uF. The original was specified as 4.7 to 5.0.
JC said:
I didn't cheat, it was common sense, or engineering judgement
You have to improve the components which are located in the signal path for best results.
C2&C3 are in line with the tweeter, thus it is worth to improve these.
L1 is in line with the woofer, so also worth the extra investment.
So it is nothing fancy
Since it is a parallel filter you don't have to use ultimate low Rdc values for the coils, (as used in serie topologies) but keep the value as low as you reasonably can afford. (1,4 mm aircore is a good solution in zobel, when you don't want to use ferrite core)
Sisterofmercy: If it is a series topology you are right, but the tweeter is in this parallel configuration protected by the cap. In a series topology a lower value of the Rdc of the coil gives better protection for the tweeter. Also worth mentioning is the fact that in serie topologies every component is in the signal path, thus even in the zobel you need HQ stuff.
To LaMa: PartsExpress is in Canada and you can order from them without paying outrageous duty and shipping charges, not to mention brokerage charges. They are in the same price range as many of the U.S. sites. They have an excellent selection of high quality parts, one of the best I would say.
I have replaced Solen with Auricaps and yes there is a difference. On some music startling, on some, not at all.
I have replaced Solen with Auricaps and yes there is a difference. On some music startling, on some, not at all.
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